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Why I'm a Pirate

ploum.net

361–370 of 527 posts

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#361
post #318
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the business model be in this case?

Someone writes music and sells it to someone who wants to play it. Or maybe someone wants to make a film, so she hires a music writer for the score.

Would you replace copyright with "terms of use" or something in a contract with the performer?

I see the value of copyright (or other intellectual property protection, such as the "terms of use" I mentioned above) in this case, for two reasons.

First, the value for the creative doesn't scale. Suppose a conductor commissioned some music to be written for six summer evening performances. How should the music writer value the work to be written? The negotiations would probably consider how much revenue the performances will generate, and result in a (presumably) fair compensation for the writer.

But suppose the conductor, after the piece has been written, uses the it for eight performances? Or switches to a much larger venue that generates much more revenue? If you don't allow for a way for the writer to be fairly compensated you run the risk of not being able to attract good writers to the field. We could argue that geniuses and top talent would still be there, but it would be difficult for merely talented to make a living (or for the unknown to start out).

The second reason I see is to protect the reputation of the writer. John Williams is a brilliant composer who has written some of the best and most-recognizable movie themes. He wrote, for instance, the theme for the movie "Jaws."

Suppose someone took his music and used it as a soundtrack for a movie that he found very distasteful (a porno, or a movie advocating the rise of the Aryan Nation, for example). He would then be associated with these other ideas, even against his will. You could argue that his ability to use music to conjure emotions could be used to rally people for causes with which he vehemently disagrees. Copyright can help protect against that (but can't completely stop it, of course).

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#362
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way to go making a comparison that makes no sense at all. A lumberjack can't digitally mass produce cutting down trees. They have to actually be present at each tree.

Yes, I know that you can identify differences between abolition of copyright and a ban on all monetary compensation for lumberjacks. What you cannot do, however, is find a difference that distinguishes them in a way that defends your argument that we shouldn't worry about a world where X is only produced by charity, since some people do X for free. If you don't care that art would only be produced for free, neither s…

Again who is talking about doing something for free?

Don't blame me for you lack of imagination that would have allowed you to see a world where artist could create without making money on digitally mass produced songs.

It is possible plenty of people are doing it.

So please spare me the strawmen.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#363
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who's going to pony up the cash for the next Half-Life (not the next Valve game, but the next product on that level) up-front when dealing with nobodies? While I acknowledge that it doesn't seem to make economic sense, I have a great deal of respect for how people seem to be actually behaving. True nobodies can raise six figures on Kickstarter right now. I can only imagine what would happen if a somebody tried. If Va…

And how do you create that "somebody" in a world hostile to self-bootstrapping? The only option I see is to spend a significant (and economically fairly stupid because of the opportunity costs you give up in doing so) amount of time incrementally building larger and larger projects, hoping that you're still enough of the flavor-of-the-month that people will continue to fund you. (For an example of why I'm skeptical o…

iD Software bootstrapped themselves with a low budget, shareware, no effective DRM, and an audience that largely wasn't big on buying things (teenage boys, as far as I can tell).

The recent success of numerous "indy" games, smartphone app games, and in particular Zynga indicate to me that success in the market with a low budget (read: not making 'AAA games') is still not only feasible, but common.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#364

The author claims that he hates the music industry and won't miss them, yet he admits he's willing to break the law to get their products. Consider the absurdity of this juxtaposition. Modern popular music is properly considered the product of both the artists and the industry. Someone mentioned Rihanna. Do you think you would have any idea who Rihanna is without the music industry? Would her music sound at all the s…

> The author claims that he hates the music industry and won't miss them, yet he admits he's willing to break the law to get their products.

He's not breaking "the law". His breaking some law. You surely broke some law in your life? You can't be sure that you didn't. You just try not to inflict harm on other people and get by.

"Their products" spam everything everywhere. Their billboards litter public space. Their music litters radio waves. Their silly cliches litter minds.

If you dangle a carrot in front of peoples faces you shouldn't complain that someone will eventually eat it without paying you a goddamn thing. Especially if he can do that without you even noticing.

I think if piracy stops Hollywood from shoving their crap in everyone's faces it will be a good thing.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#365
post #143

OP, if this is just a whine about how unfair the world is and how special you are, then fine. But if it's an attempt to make something happen (stop SOPA), then it's not working and is in fact counterproductive, so please just STFU. You are offsetting the good hard work of so many others trying to make the right things happen. Make no mistake about it, we have reached the point where the best course of action is proba…

Devil's advocate: Where does civil disobedience fit in with "Multiple wrongs do not make a right"?

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people propose that copyright be abolished, they are saying, if effect, that anybody who produces a creative work immediately forfeits any right to control it and that any random person can come along and freely enjoy the benefits of that work and also freely reproduce and distribute that work. I could not disagree more. If someone creates a work of art, they only own the physical manifestation of that creatio…

So, I'm a musician. What "physical manifestation" are you talking about? Compressed air? Because as soon as I make a record I have to "guard that physical manifestation" ... how? with SOPA? preventing CD'd from being sold? And in short you deny artists of ownership of anything else than the physical representation (unethical!) But in the next sentence you make the creation "other people's property". If I think of som…

People have made music for thousands of years. We've only been able to record it for 135. I don't think music would go away if you suddenly had the ability to record it but not to prevent others from copying the recording. As far as I can tell, you can't stop teenagers from forming rock bands. Music will survive.

The fundamental point is that I don't think that you have a right to make a living as an artist. If you can find a way to get people to pay you for it, that's great. Just don't take away people's rights in the process.

It's the same in software. I'd love to be able to get paid for every little thing I ever wrote, but that's not reality. I only get paid for things that can be packaged into some kind of product, something with a business model where people feel like paying me.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#367
post #361
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone writes music and sells it to someone who wants to play it. Or maybe someone wants to make a film, so she hires a music writer for the score.

Would you replace copyright with "terms of use" or something in a contract with the performer? I see the value of copyright (or other intellectual property protection, such as the "terms of use" I mentioned above) in this case, for two reasons. First, the value for the creative doesn't scale. Suppose a conductor commissioned some music to be written for six summer evening performances. How should the music writer val…

If it were really necessary (though I am unconvinced that it is) a royalty system could likely be emulated in a society with no copyright with contract and corporate law.

Write a song for Metallica? Sell it to them in exchange for some amount of cash up front, and partial ownership in the company that is selling that particular album/single/whatever.

Clumsy perhaps, but if big money is involved the overhead should be minimal.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of said work lies in the consumer, not the producer. If consumers by in large don't want to pay for something, then it simply isn't valuable and producing something in that segment and then complaining about piracy is rather pointless. You know going in consumers don't value that because they're accustomed to getting it for free. You had better expect piracy.

Your point about value lying in the consumer is a good response to the parent. The parent implies that society should invent business models to protect people who do things (but then even fails to make the point through use of word "generally"). However, I don't think the rest of your points are strong. People might not want to pay for apples, but that doesn't give them the justification to steal them. That's not bec…

The apple comparison isn't apt; apples are physical products, I'm talking about intellectual products.

Copying isn't stealing, so yea, it's different.

As for the final paragraph, all of those are rather easily solved by realizing that information will be copied whether you like it or not. If you don't want it out there, don't release it. Fake government monopolies on information copying is a dying model, the death throws of the old guard trying to cope with a world they don't understand. Information will be free, eventually.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#369
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under a society in which copyright is protected, I can freely choose to do that if I like. I can place my work in the public domain and relinquish any right to compensation for it. As you can do in a society without copyright--that is your personal decision. Copyright is not required for you to do what you will with your stuff. Or I can let others use it freely but only on if they meet some condition that I impose on…

I don't understand your argument or what you are saying is wrong. Rights are a legal limitation on the actions of others, not a physical limitation. They exist to limit people from doing what they otherwise "can" do to you in the physical world. You have physical property rights so people cannot enter your home when you are at work and take your television. That is enforced through the law not the Fort Knox security…

I think the point is that copyright is no longer physically enforceable. This makes copyright equally silly as giving some people right to experience 365 days and nights of continuous daylight. You could theoretically build a system that houses them on plane that follows the daylight for whole year but this would be so costly that this right would be physically unenforceable. Providing authors with legal copyright protection would be even more costly and only slightly less pointless.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are these "distribution and promotion channels" limited by? Limited radio spectrum, limited television stations, somewhat limited music distribution chains/relationships, somewhat limited magazine readership.

OK, but a new media company wouldn't face any hurdles that established ones don't. It's not like, say, the market of PC operating systems or social networks where you need network effects. What you describe is simply a limited pool of customers.

OK, well if you want to crush the existing guys, I think you'd need to compete in their space, and that means vying for control of channels (while they're still relevant).

If you want to create and sell CDs then you can do this now. I've got friends who self-publish "classical" music performances and make (not much) money from it by getting good reviews in trade magazines and selling CDs at concerts. Or you could give your music away and sell mugs and tshirts and tickets to performances.

Or there's the model that city-based orchestras do - make margin by selling tickets to concerts and having a distribution agreement with a local music shop or radio network for recordings. e.g. http://www.aso.com.au/recordings.html

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