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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#361

Post by User23 »

undersuit wrote: post #312
irrational wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.

Catholic teaching is that men cannot become women and women cannot become men. Catholic teaching is that lying is sinful. Practicing the Catholic faith by saying "I'm sorry, but I can't 'use your pronouns' because that would be a lie by falsely saying you're a woman when you can't be" will get you reprimanded or fired at most any major US company.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#362

Post by undersuit »

Dig1t wrote: post #343
drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

People are scared to say this, because they quickly get labeled a Christofascist or alt-right something or other, but it's true. Trads are definitely the counter culture now. Tim Dillon made a joke recently, something along the lines of "The most radical non-conformist thing you can do now is wear rosary beads". I thought it was kind of funny, but also because it's true.

I grew up with a number of rosaries. I would have to bring them into my Catholic grade school and then we'd walk to the church on campus and spend the next hour reciting rote verses and trying to keep track of where I was on the rosary.

Wearing rosary beads sounds like a counter culture move against the church if you ask me. Rosaries are almost sacred.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#363

Post by ROTMetro »

korroziya wrote: post #294
undersuit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#364

Post by BobbyJo »

irrational wrote: post #305
undersuit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

You becoming religious doesn't really concern them and isn't very noteworthy.

Someone changing their gender identity is pretty surprising and asks that you change how you interact with them.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#365

Post by MrRadar »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #250
defrost wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact). The global human population reached 8.0 billion in mid-November 2022 from an estimated 2.5 billion people in 1950, Your opinion and the actual growth rates do not seem to be in agreement.

> Your opinion and the actual growth rates do not seem to be in agreement. Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. I know I'm right. Even the resident HN golden boy Elon Musk has been very outspoken recently about his significant concerns regarding the forthcoming population collapse. So it's happening whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Human society survived just fine with one quarter the current population 70 years ago. Why can't it survive with that again? Especially now that we have better technology that makes each human much more productive? Unless you can only look at the world through the lens of capitalism (which requires infinite growth)... but capitalism is definitely not required for humanity in general (human society existed before capitalism and will continue to exist after it).

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#366

Post by noobermin »

Pigalowda wrote: post #256
Mezzie wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I won’t be dragged into the bullshit doomerism and constant shifting existential crises that online and west coasters seem to be addicted to. The thing that's interesting about this is that human beings in acute distress are less adept at planning ahead and being creative. Which means that people in the doom cycle can't start building new institutions to challenge the old ones that are decaying and pillaging. The p…

You may be right about the suburban areas, I just don't know. I haven't lived there since I was a kid. The area around Pioneer square is all boarded up now, even the court house! During the summer/fall it was much worse with indigent drug use and florid psychotics but now that it's cold and wet there's less. The station is still used as a toilet though. Funny enough the stairs at exit A in Pioneer Square have inscrib…

What is chemotherapy in this case?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#367

Post by mulmen »

Pigalowda wrote: post #256
Mezzie wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I won’t be dragged into the bullshit doomerism and constant shifting existential crises that online and west coasters seem to be addicted to. The thing that's interesting about this is that human beings in acute distress are less adept at planning ahead and being creative. Which means that people in the doom cycle can't start building new institutions to challenge the old ones that are decaying and pillaging. The p…

You may be right about the suburban areas, I just don't know. I haven't lived there since I was a kid. The area around Pioneer square is all boarded up now, even the court house! During the summer/fall it was much worse with indigent drug use and florid psychotics but now that it's cold and wet there's less. The station is still used as a toilet though. Funny enough the stairs at exit A in Pioneer Square have inscrib…

The most recent elections clearly demonstrate that Seattle voters are fed up and are ready to try something else. Of the seven city council members whose terms are up in 2023 only one has announced a re-election campaign and four of them have said they won't be running. It's a mess right now but I don't think it's fair to accuse the electorate of living in a parallel reality.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#368

Post by ROTMetro »

Dig1t wrote: post #343
drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

People are scared to say this, because they quickly get labeled a Christofascist or alt-right something or other, but it's true. Trads are definitely the counter culture now. Tim Dillon made a joke recently, something along the lines of "The most radical non-conformist thing you can do now is wear rosary beads". I thought it was kind of funny, but also because it's true.

Grew up catholic with a devout saint of a grandfather and the only people who I have seen wearing rosary beads were horrible, horrible cartel guys in prison.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#369

Post by pessimizer »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #198
z3c0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what you're describing is exactly where "counterculture" flips over to "culture". It may have been counterculture at one point, but once it's grabbed up by the mainstream canon, it is no longer counterculture. This is an important element of "cool", which is essentially the ebb-and-flow of ideas between counterculture and mainstream culture.

Pretty sure BLM was a media darling from the moment it was discovered. Maybe I have a weird media bubble, but the content I saw was endlessly pro-BLM (even contortions such as the memorable CNN reporter wearing a gas mask against a burning Kenosha with the caption “fiery but mostly peaceful protests”) for most of the last decade. I can’t think of a way that BLM was ever counter-cultural.

> Pretty sure BLM was a media darling from the moment it was discovered.

It was the polished, highly educated, upper-middle class version of the activists that sprang up around the Ferguson protests. BLM was the mainstream corporate replacement of a street level movement, whose leaders acquired a habit of being found executed in the trunks of burned cars. A rehearsal for #TimesUp.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#370

Post by kerpotgh »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I don’t think trads are counter culture because they are the vast, vast majority outside of major cities anyways. It’s about as normative as you can get.
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