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AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

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Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#361

Post by wodenokoto »

wefarrell wrote: post #45

This reminds me of an argument I got into at a bar with someone who claimed robots would inevitably replace bartenders. I took the view that bartenders would be the last occupation to be replaced by robots because if the goal was to minimize the cost to consume alcohol people wouldn't be coming to bars in the first place. There's a misconception that jobs with higher pay and more prestige will be the last to be repla…

We see all sorts of automation behind the counter, without considering them "robots".

Many bars will have a tap where you place a cup and click a button and it will be filled. Every Starbucks I've been to in the last year has had a fully automated coffee machine. The barista places a cup and pushes a button. The same for filling any sort of cup and fastfood chains. It's either the customers job or the clerk pushes a button and leave it to fill by itself.

I think this furthers your point: The people behind the counter aren't there to make your orders. They are there to take and deliver the orders with some amount of human touch.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#362

Post by negamax »

naijaboiler wrote: post #349
negamax wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the low-weak managers rely on data. That's how their affirm their decisions to wider group. AI can totally be a better data predictor and user than humans. If all a manager do (middle or higher) is collect and interpret data, they should be replaced by a program

This is a very naive take on what middle management is

I am talking about bad managers here who throw around data a lot. This is not a bad take. AI at this stage is less of a doer, more of a predictor based on data. It should replace management glut that many companies face. It will also make things more consistent instead of leaving them to whims of someone

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#363

Post by dekleinewolf »

LeonM wrote: post #271
rocqua wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like truly valuable ERP, and largely devoid of AI.

> That sounds like truly valuable ERP, and largely devoid of AI. Yes. That was kinda my point. Most of the time, it is just a good piece of software, not an 'AI'. In fact, for most situations you do not want an AI, because you want to the software to behave predictably. My point being is: good software has been replacing need for humans to manage processes for a long time now.

A lot of algorithms that used to fall under 'AI' are now considered 'just good software'.

As soon as we really understand how it works, we no longer call it AI. (And it becomes predictable).

"AI" is to "Computer Science" what "Magic" is to "Science".

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#364

Post by snowwrestler »

LeonM wrote: post #271
rocqua wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like truly valuable ERP, and largely devoid of AI.

> That sounds like truly valuable ERP, and largely devoid of AI. Yes. That was kinda my point. Most of the time, it is just a good piece of software, not an 'AI'. In fact, for most situations you do not want an AI, because you want to the software to behave predictably. My point being is: good software has been replacing need for humans to manage processes for a long time now.

Apologies if I missed it, but where in your story did a human get replaced? There were still people working inventory, cash registers, and managing.

I say this because it seems pretty obvious that software can improve the productivity of employees (including managers). But what the blog post at the top says is that AI will replace managers as a category of employees—a much stronger claim.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#366

Post by clarge1120 »

bluGill wrote: post #312
trashtester wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I took the view that bartenders would be the last occupation to be replaced by robots because if the goal was to minimize the cost to consume alcohol people wouldn't be coming to bars in the first place. For a traditional bar, I agree. In places where the "bar" is not the primary attraction, such as sports arenas, concert halls or even some types of night clubs, the bar may be just a bottleneck where you may have t…

In a traditional bar the robot will mix drinks, while the bar tender talks. A few bartenders have mixing the drink part of their act, but the rest don't need to pour drinks. Science fiction had long suggested bartenders have a degree in psychology or some such field as realistically that is what they are, just not paid / trained like the medical profession it is

Half the fun of having a bartender is to influence the alcohol content of your drinks. If the bartender has no influence on the drink the bartender/customer relationship is weak.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#367

Post by dopidopHN »

HideousKojima wrote: post #343
dopidopHN wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. In the context of productivity, I think a 'per hour' metric is more appropriate. France and western Europe in general have comprehensive social nets that will allow a larger part of the population to be idle/unemployed. A GDP per capita will be lower for all those places. I think we don't really care if a country is deciding to support non-productive citizen. Here, we want to compare the productivity of peop…

Yes, but even your "per hour" metric is massively distorted by being adjusted for PPP (i.e. local cost of living, etc. which is somewhat subjective and why you'll find drastically different indexes for PPP from different sources. Even if it could be reliably measured it's still different then a measure of raw production). The average American only works ~7% more hours per week than the average Frenchman, but the GDP…

Actually I gave it some thought. PPP makes sense and that what should be used.

Let’s take the fictional example of a team of builder building a house. The exact same, basic house.

The same team of people, build 3 houses One in the Silicon Valley somewhere full of rich tech folks that they are gonna overcharge.

One other in Columbia ( same exact house )

One other in Germany ( Same exact house, built in 2000 man hours all 3 of them )

The productivity of that fictional team of builder is the same. They output one single house in 2000 man hours.

But they might sell the house for 10 times more USD in the SV than in Columbia and 5 more than Germany.

Skewing the measure of their raw productivity.

Hope it makes sense

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#368

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

snowwrestler wrote: post #364
LeonM wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds like truly valuable ERP, and largely devoid of AI. Yes. That was kinda my point. Most of the time, it is just a good piece of software, not an 'AI'. In fact, for most situations you do not want an AI, because you want to the software to behave predictably. My point being is: good software has been replacing need for humans to manage processes for a long time now.

Apologies if I missed it, but where in your story did a human get replaced? There were still people working inventory, cash registers, and managing. I say this because it seems pretty obvious that software can improve the productivity of employees (including managers). But what the blog post at the top says is that AI will replace managers as a category of employees—a much stronger claim.

Perhaps a human wasn't fully replaced but many responsibilities were. No human had to keep track of inventory, make schedules, or watch for theft from cashiers.

> Basically the only reason why there still was a manager was for responsibility and babysitting (most employees were teens that did dumb stuff). And the occasional Karen who wanted to talk to a manager.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#369

Post by jjk166 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #364
LeonM wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds like truly valuable ERP, and largely devoid of AI. Yes. That was kinda my point. Most of the time, it is just a good piece of software, not an 'AI'. In fact, for most situations you do not want an AI, because you want to the software to behave predictably. My point being is: good software has been replacing need for humans to manage processes for a long time now.

Apologies if I missed it, but where in your story did a human get replaced? There were still people working inventory, cash registers, and managing. I say this because it seems pretty obvious that software can improve the productivity of employees (including managers). But what the blog post at the top says is that AI will replace managers as a category of employees—a much stronger claim.

Machines don't do jobs, machines do tasks. It's very rare for a company to fire people because there is now a system that does exactly what they did before, no more no less. But when you take all the core tasks that a person did as part of their job and automate them away, such that the employee now is doing something completely different, they have been replaced even though they're still on the pay roll. It's functionally equivalent to firing and rehiring them for a new position. The manager may still hold the title of manager, but if they're not doing any management tasks, then they have still been replaced.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#370

Post by snowwrestler »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #368
snowwrestler wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies if I missed it, but where in your story did a human get replaced? There were still people working inventory, cash registers, and managing. I say this because it seems pretty obvious that software can improve the productivity of employees (including managers). But what the blog post at the top says is that AI will replace managers as a category of employees—a much stronger claim.

Perhaps a human wasn't fully replaced but many responsibilities were. No human had to keep track of inventory, make schedules, or watch for theft from cashiers. > Basically the only reason why there still was a manager was for responsibility and babysitting (most employees were teens that did dumb stuff). And the occasional Karen who wanted to talk to a manager.

Yes, this is my point: technology increases productivity.
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