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Deno raises $21M

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Re: Deno raises $21M

#361

Post by l30n4da5 »

spoils19 wrote: post #172
l30n4da5 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the source of node it’s just a bunch of function from pre-ES4 Old code does not mean bad code. Seems like a silly thing to look at, honestly. A bunch of java was written pre-java8, does that make it all bad? No, no it doesnt.

In most scenarios, new ways of writing the same code is a waste of time. I actively discourage use of things like type inference in newer Java versions as it goes against the purity of the original vision of the language. It's a detriment to mental agility, and it also makes scores of incredibly useful, deep books and learning resources outdated and useless.

being overly dogmatic when it comes to writing code is not a good thing, imo.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#362

Post by hollerith »

skinnymuch wrote: post #332
hollerith wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warren Buffett only invests in companies with what he calls a "moat" that make it hard for any other company to offer a similar product or service. Apple's moat, for example, is its institutional knowledge of design and maybe its relationships with its suppliers, e.g., their deal with TSMC to lock up most of TSMC's capacity on the 5-nm node. Another moat Apple has is consumers who do not like engaging in sysadmin bat…

The three companies alone do have these moats but are outliers of outliers. Stuff we haven’t seen much of before. Combined they are worth $5.5T. All US public companies are worth $40T. The Nasdaq that they are all in has a total market cap of all companies of under $20T. Besides the two mentioned exchanges, Shanghai, and Euronext, these three companies alone might come up 5th in total market cap. They are right along…

Facebook has a sizable moat: it is easy for me to join a new social network, but it is kind of pointless unless everyone I want to communicate with also joins, and it is hard to motivate them to do so. The fact that Facebook was not the first social network is evidence that that kind of moat can be crossed, but still it would be hard. And if a company starts getting traction, FB will probably offer to acquire it like they did Instagram and WhatsApp (which never was a social network, but might've become one by gradually adding features if it hadn't been acquired).

But I agree with your point: it is really hard for a new company to create a large revenue stream with a strong moat around it.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#363

Post by johnspurlock »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #184

Does this mean we can finally get a REPL where a file can be loaded, modified, then reloaded, without having to restart the whole thing? Seriously my biggest pet peeve with both deno and node.js. In every other REPL I've used this is basic functionality. When I talk about this to JS people they look at me like I'm from mars.

Deno has a built-in repl

https://deno.land/manual/tools/repl

Re: Deno raises $21M

#364

Post by johnspurlock »

kjksf wrote: post #143
jhgg wrote: post #23

Deno deploy seems cool and all, but I haven't seen any great rationale for using their service over say Cloudflare Workers.

As someone who dabbled with both workers and Deno Deploy: Deno Deploy actually works. I was very excited about the idea of workers but their tooling is (or at least was when I tried it last) abysmal, buggy and hard to understand. To this day I don't know how to setup a basic dev vs. production in workers.toml. Local debugging was buggy for naked domains (even found a GitHub issue for it that languished for months wit…

Agree regarding tooling.

So much so that I wrote Denoflare (https://denoflare.dev/) to make writing Cloudflare Workers using standard Deno a breeze: no wrangler, toml, webpack, npm etc required

Re: Deno raises $21M

#365

Post by brundolf »

nl wrote: post #319
brundolf wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I didn't realize there was a distinction Still, despite that it seems like there's a big advantage to be had

Is there thought? What's the actual difference between (JS): let x = await doSomeLongProcess(); console.log("done: " + x); vs (Python) x = await do_some_long_process() print("done: " + x)

Sure, if you use Python's async feature. But my understanding is that it's relatively uncommon; blocking IO is still the norm, right? I for one have worked in or around a couple of nontrivial Python servers, and I've never once seen an await statement. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that this comes down to it being newer, and having worse ecosystem support (more "synchronous-colored" APIs, less battle-tested frameworks, etc). It's not a first-class citizen like it is in the JS ecosystem [1]

[1] Technically JavaScript's async/await syntax came later, but it's just sugar over Promises which have been around for a much longer time, and those are built atop the event loop, which has been core to the language since day 1

Re: Deno raises $21M

#366

Post by ignoramous »

vcryan wrote: post #188

Deno overstates the problem it is intended to solve because its founders needed to justify achieving funding by being developer-famous. Let's say a company were to adopt this tech over Node, well, it seems like it would be slightly better, but probably not much of a game-changer. I'll leave it to y'all to talk about what tech is truly interesting as I don't want to seem ideological/biased, I just don't see how Deno i…

TFA goes: Try Deno Deploy - you will be surprised at the speed and simplicity.

Deno Deploy (and Cloudflare Workers) is a big deal. At least for a small tech shop like ours, I've come to found it useful for >50% of the solutions we have to implement. Its simplicity and cost-effectiveness reminds me of S3 back when it launched: 5 APIs and pay-what-you-use billing. Sure, right now, Deno Deploy's capabilities are limited, but there's nothing stopping them from building a platform around it as they go along, and now they've got $21M reasons to keep at it.

I see parallels of Zeit/Vercel meteoric rise (no pun) in Deno.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#367

Post by javajosh »

bengale wrote: post #318
javajosh wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Deno reminds me of the once-hyped Meteor.js In substance they are similar in that they both want/ed tighter "vertical integration" of tools ("DX") in an opinionated way, with the money-making plan being convenient paid hosting. "Look how easy and fun it is to make powerful stuff; we hope you give us money to host it for you!" So far the only company that's had success with this pitch is Amazon of all people, by offe…

> In substance they are similar in that they both want/ed tighter "vertical integration" of tools ("DX") in an opinionated way, with the money-making plan being convenient paid hosting. "Look how easy and fun it is to make powerful stuff; we hope you give us money to host it for you!" So far the only company that's had success with this pitch is Amazon of all people, by offering a staggering array of partially specia…

There is also the "closed loop DX" strat where the tools hosted with your code. For example, Mike Bostocks ObservableHQ, jupyter notebooks hosted for free (at least for now) on Google Drive, codepen, and a bunch more especially for server-side demos. And of course there's no way they will all become profitable companies. In fact I believe there is a "DX metagame" which governs the entire space, because devs can get fatigued by too much choice, and just say "fuck it, I'm coding my thing in notepad and pushing with ftp."

Re: Deno raises $21M

#368

Post by spencerchubb »

pull_my_finger wrote: post #283
spencerchubb wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deno is only possible because V8 is so hyper-optimized. If you think about it, V8 has to compile/interpret and then run javascript code on the fly after downloading it in the browser. That's how good V8 is. That puts javascript in a unique position to enable something like Deno So if there was a compiler/interpreter for another language that was close to being as good as V8, then something like this could exist for o…

> if there was a compiler/interpreter for another language that was close to being as good as V8 Like LuaJIT that has been around longer than V8?

It would be interesting to see a Deno competitor run on Lua!

Re: Deno raises $21M

#369

Post by jonny_eh »

l30n4da5 wrote: post #281
jonny_eh wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New language features are for new code.

agreed. but old code really doesnt need to be rewritten unless there are bugs.

Or there are optimization opportunities, but new language features are rarely for that, it's usually for developer comfort.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#370

Post by matyasrichter »

koshergweilo wrote: post #46
Zababa wrote: post #9

> Cold start (time to first response, ms) O(100) O(1000) O(10000) I think ~100 ~1000 ~10000 would be clearer than using the big O notation, since this has nothing to do with fuinctions.

I'm not sure, I'm pretty sure they're trying to communicate that these are worst case estimates. ~100 seems like it's communicating average case estimates (big theta notation), which isn't really the same thing

Big Theta isn't "average case". It describes an algorithm with the same asymptotic lower and upper bounds. How would you even formally define an average case, when the result depends on the input?
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