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Deno raises $21M

deno.com

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Re: Deno raises $21M

#171

Post by dgb23 »

brtkdotse wrote: post #45
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #15

> Early in cloud computing, virtual machines were the compute abstraction […] This is funny to me because serverless sounds to me like the return of PHP (etc) shared hosting. What's old is new again?

It’s amusing to see a whole generation of senior developers (“senior” as in 5+ years of experience) that haven’t experienced web development without React[0] and who proceed to reinvent PHP/ASP.NET/RoR. [0] Used here as shorthand for “modern js driven development”

Personally I've been using both PHP and Node/React extensively and let me tell you there are very good reasons for the React/Node/JS ecosystem to exist and they are decidedly not borne out of ignorance of the PHP ecosystem. Ryan Dahl (inventor of Node and Deno) said that he created (paraphrasing) "the PHP of this generation" and React was invented within the probably the largest PHP shop to date.

PHP is an unsafe, slow by default (execution model - the language itself fast), hard to use well, clunky, limiting and bloated language that is kept together by duct tape and the incredible effort and ingenuity of it's open source community by educating developers and improving/cleaning up the language at full blast, unfortunately often by breaking backwards compatibility.

Whether JS (including Deno) is a good alternative or the right answer is up for debate. But people who try to mimic some of the benefits of PHP in the JS ecosystem are not doing so accidentally or because of lack of experience.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#172

Post by spoils19 »

l30n4da5 wrote: post #170
asien wrote: post #159

Quoted post unavailable.

> Even the source of node it’s just a bunch of function from pre-ES4 Old code does not mean bad code. Seems like a silly thing to look at, honestly. A bunch of java was written pre-java8, does that make it all bad? No, no it doesnt.

In most scenarios, new ways of writing the same code is a waste of time. I actively discourage use of things like type inference in newer Java versions as it goes against the purity of the original vision of the language. It's a detriment to mental agility, and it also makes scores of incredibly useful, deep books and learning resources outdated and useless.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#173

Post by bbatchelder »

speed_spread wrote: post #135
thegeomaster wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I changed my view on this―I hated how things were going full circle. But in reality, human civilization loves overdoing a particular direction and then reverts to the mean. You see this with the economy, moral fashions, everything. I am an optimist in that I (have started to) believe that this slowly allows us to converge on better solutions for everything. PHP was easy to set up, easy to host, easy to understand and…

We didn't go back far enough, CGI is still where it's at.

We're there again with WASM and WAGI.

https://www.fermyon.com/blog/wasm-wasi-wagi

Re: Deno raises $21M

#174

Post by pharmakom »

erk__ wrote: post #136
pharmakom wrote: post #133

Deno sounds like a powerful runtime, but what is there to sell? I won’t build on anything that isn’t permissively licensed. They can’t charge for anything without license protection.

They are selling a global Deno hosting service https://deno.com/deploy

And what happens when AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, Digital Ocean, OpenShift, IBM, … roll this out?

Re: Deno raises $21M

#176

Post by gumby »

asien wrote: post #159

Quoted post unavailable.

> At least I’m happy for him he could finally cash out on sequoia money and become a SV millionaire like everyone else !

It doesn't actually work that way. This is an A round, so a priced round, so in theory the founders' equity could have some noticeable valuation but in reality the common will have no meaningful cash value and the founders aren't worth anything as a result of this funding. Yet, at least.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#177

Post by gumby »

asien wrote: post #159

Quoted post unavailable.

> When I look at the ecosystem of JavaScript it’s frightening to see how little coders care compared to Go or Kotlin ...

I don't know about care but there is a clear difference between people with a computer science or formal programming background and most developers. You can bemoan that, but isn't it desirable that there be a democratization of development? In fact the number of simplifying tools and packages built by programmers to speed everyone up inevitably decreases barriers to doing development, and in many cases improves the quality by managing the harder stuff properly.

We had the same phenomenon a generation or more ago with Visicalc and Excel, where people who would never think of themselves as programmers wrote complex macros to get their jobs done.

And a decade before that we famously had secretaries writing EMACS macros who certainly never thought of themselves as programmers.

I think this is all a good thing, even if I am dubious about my bank's phone app.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#178

Post by threatofrain »

asien wrote: post #159

Quoted post unavailable.

Personally I got the sense that the Go community doesn't really care for web apps or anything too close to React, but maybe I'm just not experienced enough yet with Go. Is there something like CreateRustApp but with Go?

https://github.com/Wulf/create-rust-app

Re: Deno raises $21M

#179

Post by jonny_eh »

l30n4da5 wrote: post #170
asien wrote: post #159

Quoted post unavailable.

> Even the source of node it’s just a bunch of function from pre-ES4 Old code does not mean bad code. Seems like a silly thing to look at, honestly. A bunch of java was written pre-java8, does that make it all bad? No, no it doesnt.

New language features are for new code.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#180

Post by pcl »

crowlKats wrote: post #157
mattlondon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still no RPi builds as far as I am aware, which is a shame as there are now Mac silicon builds so not sure what the hold up is. I do wonder if there are.more Raspberry Pi's out there than M1/M2 Macs :) Someone is doing the builds here - been using them and seem ok: https://github.com/LukeChannings/deno-arm64

The M1 builds are made manually by us, as github doesnt provide any runners. the same problem does apply for linux arm, however we don't have any arm linux systems any one of the members use; and building on a pi is a no-go, as that can take 70+ minutes, so that would make our release cycle a lot more complicated. Either way, we are investigating potential possibilities besides waiting for github to have runners avai…

Have you tried building in a rpi virtual machine on a Mac? I have no idea what the performance would look like, but it’d be easy enough to try, especially since you are already managing your own max builders.

I want to say I followed these instructions for doing so recently:

https://gist.github.com/plembo/c4920016312f058209f5765cb9a3a...

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