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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#361

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

lelandfe wrote: post #50
10000truths wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also probably would not have responded favorably to that wording – irrespective of if they were correct. Why not? I see nothing wrong with this sort of feedback. It's blunt, but constructive.

If it was your code they were talking about, you may feel differently. Blunt, hyperbolic statements like "massively overcomplicated" can feel like a shot across the bow when someone is talking about code you wrote. Kindness and gentleness go a long way in OSS.

Statements like this make me feel like all the people talking about how overly sensitive modern "snowflake's" are might be right.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#363

Post by deelly »

j_barbossa wrote: post #314

I really hate when fellow devs say things are "simple" like Casey Muratori said in the first place. Nothing is simple in the software (and hardware) world! If something seems simple then most likely because smart people have written libraries for you that abstract the hard part away. It also shows a certain arrogance to call a topic "simple", because it is supposed to show the audience that you are an incredible expe…

Agree. Sometime I really struggle to see a difference between Reddit and HN.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#364

Post by dogleash »

zamalek wrote: post #170
HideousKojima wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did, they implemented a crazy fast terminal renderer (that still supports advanced features like right-to-left languages in Unicode, etc.) from scratch in about 3,000 lines of code just to prove their point: https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm

Why not just create a PR, instead of a from-scratch grandstanding repo? This is a situation where tu quoque really doesn't smell like a logical fallacy. There is a lot of fuss about "being right" over "being helpful."

Probably doesn't want to work for microsoft for free. Microsoft is a 2 trillion dollar company; doing their job for them would be a total chump move.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#365

Post by listless »

lhecker wrote: post #212
gldnspud wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps leave sarcasm out of technical blog posts, or add a footnote to indicate sarcasm? I couldn't tell you were being sarcastic and it seems others couldn't as well. I only found out through this comment. Text is the worst medium for sarcasm since sarcasm is often signaled by vocal inflection or body language, neither of which are present in your post.

I'll try to avoid sarcasm in the future. What I haven't understood yet is what significance "The solution is trivial" being sarcastic or not has on the article itself. I understand it's reflecting poorly on it due to what I said earlier, but is there something that makes the article harder to understand due to this? (I realize this question sounds a bit rude, but I'm genuinely curious and I don't know how else to phr…

I think there is a lot of overreacting here to your blog post. That’s just the final piece. What rubbed me the wrong way was how your colleague castigated this person in the issue. I know people can be rough around the edges. I know they can be blunt and sometimes rude. But I think as MSFT you have a duty to rise above that by not engaging in it.

In any event, this whole thing is blown out or proportion and doesn’t deserve 300+ comments let alone another from me.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#366

Post by pc86 »

lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

Why did you join this person's discord under a pseudonym?

Edit: I ask because if you're taking a pessimistic view of this, here is the rough order of occurrences:

1. You insulted Casey, knowingly or not, intentionally or not, but in public.

2. You join his discord, under a fake name

3. You write this blog post, without credit to Casey (other than "a community member").

I hope you can see how someone could very easily take this as something more sinister than it probably was.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#367

Post by dmitriid »

jtbayly wrote: post #331
dmitriid wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A custom text renderer was exactly the trivial solution suggested and demonstrated to them when they claimed it was extremely hard and required a doctoral research.

I know nothing about this fight, let alone having a dog in it. But I'm getting downvoted for understanding English. For my point it doesn't matter if they are in the wrong, if it was easier than they claim, if they are rude, etc. All I'm saying is that the complaint on Twitter is that they now called something "trivial" that they said wasn't simple or easy before. They clearly didn't do that.

They literally did just that. And hid behind "community member suggested it".

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#368

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

> Using a texture atlas was a great idea, and we didn't know about it until you told us.

One is forced to wonder how, in an entire team working on a terminal emulator, no one thought to use the texture atlas. I mean, that's basically how the actual physical terminals the software is emulating worked in the first place. Then, when told about the obvious implementation, the reaction was not to slap one's forehead and say "Of course, it was so obvious!", but instead to tell a decades-experience game engine developer that they didn't understand how rendering works.

Mind boggling.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#370

Post by phendrenad2 »

grepfru_it wrote: post #80
eric_b wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of tone really doesn't engender sympathy: > We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah. > I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? The blog post is matter-of-fact, and Casey is right: however, he said himself that it was trivial to do this. Is it not acceptable that we use the same language? Your "apology" really is anything but. If anything you and…

This is Microsoft culture spilling into the real world. There were several times when I pointed out a fix for a flaw or problem we were suffering from and was mocked and told it’s a silly idea that I shouldn’t be wasting time on. Fast forward 1-3 months later and that same person is singing the praises for the same idea someone else “came up with”. Except it was me shopping my idea around. Seeing the tweet and the th…

Yeah I get the feeling that the general "tone" around Microsoft is "making sarcasm your defining personality trait". Maybe that flies in Seattle, but in the world of silicon valley, we've moved past caveman-like sarcasm into the superior snark and passive-aggression personality traits.
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