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Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

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Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#361

Post by paxys »

Cookingboy wrote: post #359
paxys wrote: post #291

I suspect we are going to see some turmoil in the tech hiring space with stock prices taking a beating in recent months. Large companies have gotten away with paying under market price for talent because employees have seen massive gains from stock appreciation over the last decade. If total comp starts going down year over year, suddenly the more traditional, no-frills system at places like Apple, Microsoft and Amaz…

>I suspect we are going to see some turmoil in the tech hiring space I agree, but I don't think the disruption will go the way you or I hope it would. Many of the companies that is "one tier" below were able to offer higher comp only because of sky high valuation from the recent bubble. Most of them aren't in the kind of cashflow positions that can sustain such high cost if the stock value correct. If we enter an eco…

Thing is, we've had a unique situation in recent years where trillion dollar companies have seen startup-like growth quarter after quarter. Of course no one can predict the future, but I personally think this growth will stabilize to more traditional levels (see the history of the tech industry up until ~2010 for example). This does not mean that the VC industry will disappear and startup bubbles will stop being a thing. It will just be slightly more "boring" to get a job at Google or Apple the same way it was at Cisco or IBM back in the day, and top talent will want to look elsewhere for more risk and reward.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#362

Post by ericd »

birdyrooster wrote: post #299
paxys wrote: post #291

I suspect we are going to see some turmoil in the tech hiring space with stock prices taking a beating in recent months. Large companies have gotten away with paying under market price for talent because employees have seen massive gains from stock appreciation over the last decade. If total comp starts going down year over year, suddenly the more traditional, no-frills system at places like Apple, Microsoft and Amaz…

Can confirm, Google was really stingy with their RSUs compared to Apple, but the perks really aren't that good with the exception of the food, which, when speaking to current Googlers, they say the food quality has fallen precipitously. Google at the time I worked there seemed to lean heavily on its reputation to reduce total comp.

Apple’s cafe charges for food, and gives its interns very outdated machines. They’re much stingier than Google, or at least they were.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#363

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

thund wrote: post #358
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least according to levels.fyi, Google is paying people at equivalent titles quite a bit more than Apple is. For example a senior engineer at Google is listed as having an average total comp of $380k, whereas at Apple it's only $310k. Now it's entirely possible that there is title inflation at Apple, so that a "senior" engineer at Apple is less senior than a senior engineer at Google. Or perhaps the samples are ske…

we need small companies to publish their compensation data on sites like levels.fyi, so people stop dreaming about big corps expecting huge salaries and rewards. There are many companies out there, with freedom to experiment fast, learn new tech, have a great work-life balance, without the huge tech debt of these corps, and they deserve a chance to have "rockstars" "ninjas" and so forth in their ranks

I don't know if that will have the effect you desire. It's not a secret that there are a lot of companies that pay less money than big tech. That doesn't stop people hungering for those big tech jobs. Having specific salary numbers doesn't seem likely to change the situation.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#364

Post by Lascaille »

TrevorJ wrote: post #255
jb1991 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stat has been widely reported, in the U.S. at least. There are more deaths from Covid occurring currently in the U.S. on an average daily basis that at any prior time in the pandemic. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/24/health/covid-deaths-now-y... NY Times, Washington Post, and other media have similar stories.

I'm confused, the graph they show in the article refutes the headline.

It's common these days for the headline - and sometimes first paragraph - of an article to be utterly contradicted by the body of the article.

CNN does it constantly. The headline and first para is editorial, the remainder is reportage. Totally untrustworthy.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#365

Post by Lascaille »

nojito wrote: post #112
katabatic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths are currently at around 2,000 PER DAY in the United States. That is not in any way, shape, or form "extremely lower" than earlier waves. The Omicron wave was equal to the initial wave in severity, and we're still not out of it.

Deaths from COVID is different from Deaths with COVID.

If they're not dying from COVID then why are they dying in such excessive numbers? Because whether you believe it's COVID or not, you're stacking up ~1500 more bodies per day than you were three years ago. What's the cause?

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#367

Post by renewiltord »

thund wrote: post #358
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least according to levels.fyi, Google is paying people at equivalent titles quite a bit more than Apple is. For example a senior engineer at Google is listed as having an average total comp of $380k, whereas at Apple it's only $310k. Now it's entirely possible that there is title inflation at Apple, so that a "senior" engineer at Apple is less senior than a senior engineer at Google. Or perhaps the samples are ske…

we need small companies to publish their compensation data on sites like levels.fyi, so people stop dreaming about big corps expecting huge salaries and rewards. There are many companies out there, with freedom to experiment fast, learn new tech, have a great work-life balance, without the huge tech debt of these corps, and they deserve a chance to have "rockstars" "ninjas" and so forth in their ranks

At least for the subset of small that are startups, small companies vs big companies isn’t a comp discussion. You will win on comp going to the smaller guys. It’s whether you want to burn for the moon or you want to live a comfortable upper middle class life.

FAANG is 70% retirees, 30% dipole candle burners. And the 30% provide the value, while the 70% are along for the ride.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#368

Post by astrange »

voidfunc wrote: post #269
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not FAANG, but GitHub explicitly allows employees to work on side-projects while retaining the IP rights, and you get paid Microsoft stock.

Whats hilarious is that this is definitely not the case for regular MS employees

The MS employees I've met/interviewed were literally not allowed to read open source code or sample code on Q&A websites. Of course that was mostly 5+ years ago and I don't exactly ask them if their policies have changed.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#369

Post by pempem »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #363
thund wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we need small companies to publish their compensation data on sites like levels.fyi, so people stop dreaming about big corps expecting huge salaries and rewards. There are many companies out there, with freedom to experiment fast, learn new tech, have a great work-life balance, without the huge tech debt of these corps, and they deserve a chance to have "rockstars" "ninjas" and so forth in their ranks

I don't know if that will have the effect you desire. It's not a secret that there are a lot of companies that pay less money than big tech. That doesn't stop people hungering for those big tech jobs. Having specific salary numbers doesn't seem likely to change the situation.

Must disagree. As someone working in an MBB, the total comp of a potential exit is 100% a daily topic of conversation.

IMO initially it's possible that folks will not be deterred but that is truly a matter of time and space for the knowledge to be available, make its way through and then impact people's behavior.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#370

Post by astrange »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #324
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is legitimate reason to villify. I can't speak for Apple specifically, but many companies are no longer matching the CoL increases. Housing prices are steadily increasing, and so is rent. Many have to resort to longer commutes, buying cars, and such. All of these have detrimental effects to the environment, mental health or both. Pushing people back to the office with nothing else is incredibly tonedeaf to…

> I can't speak for Apple specifically, but many companies are no longer matching the CoL increases. Housing prices are steadily increasing, and so is rent. I can't help but wonder if this is the flip side to the Silicon Valley mantra of "if you want a raise, job hop," where hitting your four-year anniversary with the same company makes you an old-timer and gets people on HN asking you if you're stupid. (Hopefully mo…

> I can't help but wonder if this is the flip side to the Silicon Valley mantra of "if you want a raise, job hop," where hitting your four-year anniversary with the same company makes you an old-timer and gets people on HN asking you if you're stupid. (Hopefully more politely than that, but that's absolutely the subtext of some recent message threads I've seen.)

I think that comes from misreading stats. If a company has huge growth and hires a bunch of new people, the average lifespan of an employee will obviously go down.

There's many well known Apple engineers (in OS software at least) who've been there for decades.

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