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Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

frenchpress.thedispatch.com

361–366 of 366 posts

Re: Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine what the government of Mississippi or Indiana during the Jim Crow era would label as blatant misinformation. But we're not talking about the government, we're talking about private platforms. Others are allowed to spread misinfo if they so choose. > Also, in a recent court case, Facebook admitted their fact checking was opinion and therefore protected from defamation. So to put those together, Facebook is c…

>But we're not talking about the government, we're talking about private platforms. Others are allowed to spread misinfo if they so choose. Yes, but we are. A lot of the COVID misinformation isn't declared misinformation because the fact-checker isn't an expert at COVID, it's because they are cross checking it with what the government says (CDC/NIH/etc). So the fact checker is using the government's facts, so imagine…

> The fact checkers would check with the government's facts who states there were WMD's in Iraq. The fact checker (not an expert on WMDs) would possibly label that as misinformation.

I don't remember the government providing any real evidence of this though, whereas for, say, the COVID vaccines, they've each had different medical trial phases, followed by data on the general populace once they reached widespread deployment. Those are very different situations.

You're right that of course there's nothing that absolutely guarantees that fact checking is better than no fact checking 100% of the time. Just like, say, a white supremacist forum's idea of 'moderation' may be worse than no moderation at all. I should amend my point: moderation and fact checking are potentially better than doing nothing, and in the case of the major platforms, definitely are.

Re: Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small communities where you can shop for a community that aligns with your desire to speak freely, and where non-free communities have alternatives.

I don't feel like this response really answers the question. You're saying some of these small communities don't align with a desire to speak freely. I feel like the same can be said, of some government. I'm not seeing why this is better.

Shopping governments is not a thing. Shopping your online community is.

Speaking freely shouldn't involve changing your life, address, citizenship, passport, taxes, healthcare...

Re: Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel like this response really answers the question. You're saying some of these small communities don't align with a desire to speak freely. I feel like the same can be said, of some government. I'm not seeing why this is better.

Shopping governments is not a thing. Shopping your online community is. Speaking freely shouldn't involve changing your life, address, citizenship, passport, taxes, healthcare...

If you're a federalist, shopping governments supposedly, is possible.

Re: Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

#364

“Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is lost The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passionate intensity.” ― W.B. Yeats That was written in 1919 and published in 1920. So the US has been there before. Came back from there, but it took a depression and a world war. We might get…

That is disturbing, what makes you think so? Ukraine and Taiwan situations?

Re: Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

#365
post #63
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most illiberal statement I've ever seen on HN.

Not really. Paradox of tolerance means not tolerating intolerance. The word “inherent” makes it wrong, though. There’s nothing inherent about conservatism that is anti-democratic.

People keep parroting this term, but I don't know if they have actually read the quote on Wikipedia.

  In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.

Re: Our nation cannot censor its way back to cultural health

#366
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there's an objective standard. You look at the politicians, the judges, and look up their standard. It's gross (no pun intended) that one needs to do that, but AFAIK lawyers do that all the time. More cases (both civil and criminal) are decided on those bases than you'd expect. (Can't speak for all places, but I'm passably familiar with UK law and precedent... and I suspect the US is similar)

> Of course there's an objective standard. You look at the politicians, the judges, and look up their standard. It's gross (no pun intended) that one needs to do that, but AFAIK lawyers do that all the time. 1) No that isn't true. There is one rule for those that are in the club and another rule for the rest of us. e.g. Just today I saw a new story of Jimmy Carr being criticised for jokes about the Holocaust. I had t…

Yes I agree with all that you said.

It's still something that can be "objectively" figured out, like you did.

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