“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says • Hacker News Board

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#361

Post by dhimes » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #297

chadash wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just what's in the summary. The actual policy [1] spells this out in more detail with examples: > ROSCA requires negative option sellers to provide a simple, reasonable means for consumers to cancel their contracts. To meet this standard, negative option sellers should provide cancellation mechanisms that are at least as easy to use as the method the consumer used to initiate the negative option feature. For e…

Ah, this sounds a lot better. Thanks for digging in!

I would like it better if the word "shall" was used instead of "should."

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#362

Post by ookware » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #157

kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Same with the UK subscription craft beer service, beer52.com [1]. Subscribe easily with a few clicks, but they make you call during office hours and endure 10+ minutes on hold to cancel. Sadly in the UK I guess we won't get the benefit of any new EU legislation to address this. [1] https://ibb.co/r4LfK5F

When I had an account with Beer52 I them and said, effectively, "This is my notice to cancel and the main motivation to cancel is because of anti-consumer behaviour like having to call to cancel. I do not authorise any further payments and any payments you do take will be subject to a dispute with my credit card company".

To their credit they did send me a reply saying my account had been cancelled and I never spoke to anyone on the phone.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#363

Post by OldHand2018 » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

rootsudo wrote: post #255

jcgoette wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>photo ID will get you a free library card Results may vary.

No, Librarians are pretty liberal with this. Many in big cities, e.g. Chicago, Seattle, etc don't even need to see an ID, just a bill but if you show up and pester back and forth a few times they'll still give you one. No government identity needed. A bill helps.

In large cities especially, libraries will have an "independent" charitable foundation attached to them. It is very prestigious in the local community to be on the board or to donate large sums to these foundations. Thus, large city libraries are typically excellent with plenty of funding and can afford to offer services to the poor and indigent which smaller libraries cannot.

In the US, a lot of libraries are funded by property taxes, and the various laws that allow these taxes to be collected (for library purposes) will state that the library cannot offer services to people outside the geographic boundary for a lower cost than is charged to the people inside the boundary and are paying the taxes. That's why they need "proof" of where you live before giving you a card. But then you also have laws requiring services to be provided to the homeless regardless of proof of residence (how do you prove your residence when you are homeless?). How does the library resolve that legal conflict? It pretty much always comes down to money and local attitudes (see first paragraph).

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#364

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #354

havelhovel wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist does this as well. Very frustrating to have to explain multiple times over chat that I just want to cancel and that no I don’t want any deals and that yes I understand the terms of the offer being made and that no I still don’t want the deal even though I understand you are telling me that this deal really is in my best interest. And yet I didn’t need to talk to any employees at all before giving them m…

The economist also does not have unsubscribe links in their marketing emails, the ones that you get after you’re a subscriber.

That's why I mercilessly hit the spam button on such emails. Any email which is slightly uncalled for is spam in my books.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#365

Post by dhimes » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #289

devilbunny wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> speed traps that just trigger a red light Much better than what I've seen in my (US) city: speed limit 30 mph, but lights timed for 40-45 mph to get a continuous green light down the one-way street. Either you speed, opening you to tickets, or you stop needlessly on lights that are set for a faster speed than you are traveling.

Not sure where you are, but if that’s in fact the case, your city would be violating the law in at least California, and likely several other states.

Not GP, but I've seen it in the Boston area.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#366

Post by rlpb » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #237

bodge5000 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the FTC, not the EU (as far as I'm aware theres no EU legislation planned or in place for this). Of course you could argue that the EU might do it one day, but you could say the same about the UK. That being said I thought it already was against UK law. Maybe I got that wrong, or there are loopholes around it, or its just not heavily enforced. Who knows

The EU regulation on this was already passed several years ago, and is already enforced in some countries, it should be universally enforced by the end of the year.

Any chance of a reference here please? I've been unable to find the law (in my case the UK, but an EU regulation reference would help) which enacts this, and I'm dealing with a dispute at the moment where this would be helpful.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#367

Post by danielvaughn » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

aristophenes wrote: post #316

I had to cancel my gym membership because I was moving, and it required me to send a physical letter. I did this, but found out later that somehow I owed like 2 dollars, so they didn’t count my cancellation request because my account wasn’t up to date (should be illegal). They continued to bill me the entire membership fee, but my credit card had changed, so they sent my account to a collections agency. Right when I…

Ha, I made a similar comment about my experience with a gym elsewhere in this thread. Gyms are up near the top of worst practices when it comes to this kind of thing. There really should be legal ramifications for companies that do this.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#368

Post by bborud » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

mercy_dude wrote: post #173

Good. The worst experience I ever had was with NY Times when I wanted to unsubscribe I had to go through multiple call/chats with a person and it was almost impossible since it was hard to get in touch with one. I am glad FTC is doing something others are afraid to do.

I cancelled NYT by simply emailing them and telling them that I would be stopping payment. I was curious to see if they'd do anything. I never heard from them (and my subscription was miraculously cancelled).

I'm not sure if it's a factor that I live in Europe?

I don't think I ever want to give NYT my money again though. I have no wish to deal with scummy businesses.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#369

Post by bborud » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #264

mercy_dude wrote: post #173

Good. The worst experience I ever had was with NY Times when I wanted to unsubscribe I had to go through multiple call/chats with a person and it was almost impossible since it was hard to get in touch with one. I am glad FTC is doing something others are afraid to do.

Strange that this hit HN today. 2 days ago I wondered what the cancellation policy was for the WSJ and checked. At the time I did not plan on cancelling but after finding out that it was "call to cancel" I called at that moment. I cannot stand the policy where it takes 3 seconds to sign up online but you have to call in to cancel. If I can help it I wont give money to companies that do it. In WSJ defense (barely) it…

Just out of curiosity: what would have happened if you had just stopped paying them after sending them an email informing them that you wanted to cancel?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#370

Post by mcronce » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

aristophenes wrote: post #316

I had to cancel my gym membership because I was moving, and it required me to send a physical letter. I did this, but found out later that somehow I owed like 2 dollars, so they didn’t count my cancellation request because my account wasn’t up to date (should be illegal). They continued to bill me the entire membership fee, but my credit card had changed, so they sent my account to a collections agency. Right when I…

It took me seven years to cancel Planet Fitness after I moved a hundred miles away. Letter after letter, nothing...finally made a trip back home one day and had time to stop and deal with it.

Fuck gyms. I can run on the sidewalk for free.