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Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

element.io

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Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#361

Post by gfdgfdgfdggg »

GrayShade wrote: post #42
krageon wrote: post #7

Does anyone know what this product is based on? Is it just a ready-made image with all the bridges preconfigured (and prerequisites such as a small android vm for a viable whatsapp bridge), or has there been some evolution on the existing package? Is there documentation on what was done to achieve this? Purely on the content of the article: Given that the messages are not stored encrypted locally and that this servic…

I've been running the Signal bridge for a couple of months and it seems pretty unstable. Sometimes it stops delivering messages and I have to restart either signald or the bridge. At other times, it broke completely and started working again only after a couple of days, when I updated signald. I haven't tried the WhatsApp bridge yet because it needs to go through my phone or an Android VM. WhatsApp recently announced…

I've had the opposite experience. I've run a signal bridge for ~6 months with 0 interaction at all from me. This is the mautrix signal bridge, pantalaimon, and Synapse.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#363

Post by ev1 »

have_faith wrote: post #15
miguelrochefort wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They already reverse engineered the Whatsapp protocol. I see little reason why it can't live in the client? I don't really follow why they move the bridge to the homeserver. Matrix bridges are rather complex. They rely on a combination of private APIs (WhatsApp), Chrome extension scraping (LINE), bots (Telegram), mobile clients (Android SMS), and jailbroken iPhones (iMessage).

This is all very interesting from a technological perspective but it sounds incredible brittle. Do I break any terms with these 3rd parties by paying Matrix to scrape them?

No one knows about detection or enforcement, but almost certainly yes.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#364

Post by ev1 »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #59
have_faith wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all very interesting from a technological perspective but it sounds incredible brittle. Do I break any terms with these 3rd parties by paying Matrix to scrape them?

I've been using Beeper.com for a while and it's surprisingly stable despite how brittle one would expect these bridges to be. Given that puppeteering should be indistinguishable from real application usage and that $5/month/user should be more than enough to diversify IP addresses, I suspect the model can actually be sustainable in the long term.

I'm kind of curious how Beeper will handle some of these - they claim to soon support WeChat, and emulating WeChat is a bit insane, because it collects so much data that it's a walking GDPR violation, there's no way to stop it, and we are talking things like "please repeat the numbers in chinese, then english, while looking straight into your phone" at login.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#365

Post by zepto »

tshaddox wrote: post #308
zepto wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - the bridge could be compromised without your conversation partner’s involvement. I.e. the bridge is a vulnerability that enables man in the middle attacks.

Your conversation partner's device could also be compromised remotely.

Yes, but that’s in no way comparable to a centralized server where potentially millions of conversations can be compromised at the same time.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#366

Post by toastal »

tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

This reminds me how absurd it is that OSS projects are bridging Matrix, Discord, and IRC. These all have vastly different ToS and forms of encryption and user privacy. By doing this you can be taking an encrypted message on Matrix and implicitly agree to the ToS and reposting their message to something closed-source and with sketchy privacy like Discord, which defeats the purpose on why one would choose Matrix.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#367

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

dtparr wrote: post #292
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

come on. can we just drop this end to end encrypted bs on whatsapp atleast ? when you report a message, you allow admins to see the last 3-4 messages. if only you and your receipent is supposed to see the messages, "e2e", how can an admin see them? edit: https://www.huaweicentral.com/new-whatsapp-report-feature-wi...

While I can't vouch for WhatsApp's implementation of course, the capability could easily maintain e2e encryption by just forwarding those 5 messages directly to WhatsApp admins. E2E just means it gets to your recipient without being exposed on the way. It doesn't mean they can't take and then re-distribute it to others.

That is a slippery slope. Are you SURE WhatsApp doesn't auto forward all communications to itself AFTER the users read them? That too silently so you have no way of knowing

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#368

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

wayoutthere wrote: post #316
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

remember that xkcd https://xkcd.com/538/ yeahh. thats not exactly a meme but i am personally facing these same state sponsored actions read here https://thekashmirwalla.com/not-pegasus-kashmiris-are-worrie...

Yeah, infosec has its limits. But if you’re gonna challenge the state, it does help keep things quiet until you are numerous and armed.

I recently had my internet snapped last month and I did not want reddit to know "last 90 days IP access log" so I had a dormant account and I wrote a post locally, called a friend living overseas and made him login to that dormant account and I dictated the text.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#369

Post by dotancohen »

teekert wrote: post #245
stjohnswarts wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption fan here, bridging is one more avenue for failure, is why I won't buy in. Security is about odds, and nothing is 100% safe. I'm pretty sure signal is way better than anything I could come up with, so I choose it.

Maybe it’s not for you but more for those of us forced onto FB’s WhatsApp and their phone book scanning/uploading by social conventions. This presents a way out without giving up the benefits.

  > forced onto FB’s WhatsApp
Just don't install it. I've never used it. People ask why, I answer that I do not accept the spying in their terms of service. Far more people are sympathetic to that line than you might expect.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#370

Post by teekert »

dotancohen wrote: post #369
teekert wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it’s not for you but more for those of us forced onto FB’s WhatsApp and their phone book scanning/uploading by social conventions. This presents a way out without giving up the benefits.

> forced onto FB’s WhatsApp Just don't install it. I've never used it. People ask why, I answer that I do not accept the spying in their terms of service. Far more people are sympathetic to that line than you might expect.

If you live in the Netherlands and have young kids in school this really isn't option. It's how kids' parties are arranged, sports schedules are communicated, parents are kept informed about school. And then it is also often the most convenient way to contact any help desk.

The annoying thing is is that WA became the standard for communications when they were not owned by FB and had a privacy focus. This is why I have no qualms abut trying to cheat out of their horrible system.

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