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Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

element.io

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Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#241

Post by freeopinion »

tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

If privacy mattered that much to you, you wouldn't depend on Signal to encrypt your messages. You would encrypt them before handing them to Signal.

So you should have an encrypted message that you hand to Signal. Signal encrypts it again and hands it to the bridge. Eventually, whether at the bridge or at the other end or wherever, something decrypts the Signal message. Then the person you are communicating with applies the final decryption outside of Signal, Matrix, or whatever.

If this sounds terribly inconvenient to you, perhaps privacy is not as important as you claim. Security and convenience are almost always in conflict.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#242

Post by hellojesus »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #205
hellojesus wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the walled garden is the competitive advantage. A law like this could regulate businesses out of existence. Which websites fall under it? Only social? What about forums, etc. What if the companies just rebase to non-US jurisdictions? Even if you make this law, it's unlikely it would actually compel anyone to comply.

> A law like this could regulate businesses out of existence. Only if they didn't change their business model to something less incredibly antisocial than walling people in and serving them ads. There are many ways to operate a communications business on-line. That only the bad one is used in practice is a consequence of it being the most profitable of available options. If it weren't available (say, because of being…

Yes, but what if this is the only way to have a profitable business such as these? Are you okay losing them entirely?

More generally, my view of regulation is that it should only exist if there is some quantifiable harm to an involuntary third party (negative externality). Where is the demonstrative harm here, and who is it impacting? Having one friend on FB and another on MySpace, requiring the user to log into each platform separately isn't harm. The effect is the same as having one friend call you on a phone to communicate and the other only use text.

Every single person using these platforms makes a conscious decision to use them given their limitations. Nobody is forcing anyone to use these platforms. The government still runs a post office. You could use that to communicate with people if you wanted.

Instead of passing legislation to fix your problem, how about you just talk to your friends and get them to agree on using a single platform?

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#243

Post by feanaro »

5- wrote: post #240

> hosted by Element Matrix Services; constantly maintained to the highest standard and best practices by the experts who created Matrix - giving an infinitely better experience than the typical free-for-all of public homeservers. so much for the federation.

What's wrong with this? How is it opposed to federation?

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#244

Post by dane-pgp »

ergl wrote: post #212
tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

For all you know your Signal contacts are using a CLI client and then forwarding the messages through SMS to their feature phones :^)

If you believe that, then I have a bridge to sell you. :^)

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#245

Post by teekert »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #201
pmlnr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want this to take off. I'm tired of having to follow trends because people suddenly think there's a new shinyshinytrendy thing around: IRC to ICQ to MSN to Skype to Google Talk to Facebook Messenger to Whatsapp to Signal. Pidgin is good (I also miss the ancient Trillian, even though it was closed source), but limited to a local device. There are XMPP Transports as well for these (see https://git.eta.st/eta/whatsxmp…

Encryption fan here, bridging is one more avenue for failure, is why I won't buy in. Security is about odds, and nothing is 100% safe. I'm pretty sure signal is way better than anything I could come up with, so I choose it.

Maybe it’s not for you but more for those of us forced onto FB’s WhatsApp and their phone book scanning/uploading by social conventions. This presents a way out without giving up the benefits.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#246

Post by barbazoo »

tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

I got so excited for this until I read that, too. I wish there wasn't fragmentation like there is now but MITMing all my comms is definitely not a smart choice if I chose any of the comm systems it bridges based on privacy.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#247

Post by freeopinion »

pmlnr wrote: post #110
tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

I want this to take off. I'm tired of having to follow trends because people suddenly think there's a new shinyshinytrendy thing around: IRC to ICQ to MSN to Skype to Google Talk to Facebook Messenger to Whatsapp to Signal. Pidgin is good (I also miss the ancient Trillian, even though it was closed source), but limited to a local device. There are XMPP Transports as well for these (see https://git.eta.st/eta/whatsxmp…

The point of encryption in the first place is to allow an untrusted transport. If you trust the transport, you don't need encryption.

OMEMO nor XMPP provide trusted transport.

Perhaps the point you are reaching for is that encryption and transport should be different parties. The message should be encrypted before you hand it to the Western Union agent. After that, the decision between Western Union, Union Pacific, or Pony Express hinges on other concerns.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#248

Post by hellojesus »

teekert wrote: post #245
stjohnswarts wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption fan here, bridging is one more avenue for failure, is why I won't buy in. Security is about odds, and nothing is 100% safe. I'm pretty sure signal is way better than anything I could come up with, so I choose it.

Maybe it’s not for you but more for those of us forced onto FB’s WhatsApp and their phone book scanning/uploading by social conventions. This presents a way out without giving up the benefits.

Doesn't grapheneos allow some type of sandboxing to wall off your true contacts, etc. for exactly this purpose?

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/nkyzdw/what_is_the...

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#249

Post by stavros »

unicornporn wrote: post #102
unicornporn wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Let us not forget what general purpose computing was like.

Following up on this... I was Miranda user. With it I was able to run ICQ, MSN Messenger and other instant messengers with an encrypted layer slapped on top (as long as I was able to talk my friends out of using the official client). Today it's called Miranda NG[1] and it seems alive and kicking[2]. [1] https://www.miranda-ng.org/en/ [2] https://github.com/miranda-ng/miranda-ng

uhoh.wav

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#250

Post by approxim8ion »

pmlnr wrote: post #110
tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

I want this to take off. I'm tired of having to follow trends because people suddenly think there's a new shinyshinytrendy thing around: IRC to ICQ to MSN to Skype to Google Talk to Facebook Messenger to Whatsapp to Signal. Pidgin is good (I also miss the ancient Trillian, even though it was closed source), but limited to a local device. There are XMPP Transports as well for these (see https://git.eta.st/eta/whatsxmp…

> why would you trust ANY 3rd party with your so sensitive data instead of running your own service?

Because end to end encryption means you don't have to trust a third party? The channel goes out of the equation, at least with reference to the content of your messages. Metadata is definitely handled differently by different services but that's a question of threat model.

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