Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

dell.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 908 posts

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#361

Post by UweSchmidt »

michaelanckaert wrote: post #228
reitzensteinm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

Posted in another comment thread, but my MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) has been awesome! No issues, no repairs or replacements and still going strong. Maybe I got lucky but I really hope my next machine (probably going to buy the next 16" pro) will last as long.

That's the pre-2016 MBP life. Still very happy with mine from 2013. The new M1-based ones are probably going to be good again, just in time for an upgrade, but we'll see.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#362

Post by vbezhenar »

jiggawatts wrote: post #231
cm2187 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed that it wakes from sleep for windows updates now, which not only is annoying (Bluetooth devices suddenly waking up too), but windows update often requires intense CPU usage as defender does its dirty things, .net re-JITs, etc.

This is a life-threating design. A high-end "gamer" laptop in a bag powering up unexpectedly could easily catch fire and kill someone. These shenanigans will keep going on until someone dies and a manager or two at Microsoft is sent to jail for criminal negligence.

How can laptop catch fire? CPU throttles itself at 100 C and shuts down shortly thereafter. 100C is not enough to make a fire.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#363

Post by abind »

dublin wrote: post #291
discreditable wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen issues with Modern Standby on my fleet of Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga L13 and L13 Gen 2. Usually everything is fine, but sometimes they get super hot in standby as well. It's like something is keeping the CPU awake but the rest of the hardware is asleep (including the fans). My older units (ThinkPad Yoga 260, ThinkPad Yoga 370, ThinkPad L380 Yoga, ThinkPad L390 Yoga) never had any problem like this because they do…

Modern Standby is an Intel thing, not a Microsoft thing. Intel has just pressured Microsoft and other OEMs into supporting it. IMO, it's a huge steaming pile-o-crap, and one of the biggest reasons I want my next PC to have a non-Intel CPU. Intel has shown over the past decade that they are quite simply incapable of implementing properly functioning power management, and I'm tired of having machines die because of the…

FWIW, it is not an Intel thing. I got an Asus G14 2021 which has nothing Intel (Amd CPU and nvidia GPU) and this does not support S3, only the modern "connected standby" crap.

Talk about ruining a perfectly working solution for almost no gain.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#364

Post by praash »

It's funny to read this after just arriving home with my XPS 15 9500 suspended in my backpack. I got it last week and installed Manjaro right away, and everything worked very well out of the box.

The fans keep going on full throttle even with a relatively idle desktop. The cores were constantly reaching 100°C while initializing a heavy dev environment.

The laptop's physical design is attractive, but abysmal. The main ventilation hole is located under the hinges, facing behind the laptop. Opening the lid will completely block this airway with a vertical wall 4 mm away. The venting grill at the bottom is lifted only a millimeter away from the table. Lifting the laptop off the table makes the fans sound way louder while lowering down in pitch - I think this is a clear sign of restricted airflow.

You really shouldn't pack this much beefy hardware in a package almost as flat as a damn biscuit.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#365

Post by anamax »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #315
elzbardico wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine this happening in the overhead bin of a plane.

Or in the cargo hold.

In the US at least, laptops with LI-ion batteries are not supposed to be in the cargo hold.

I don't know whether the checked-luggage scanners catch this or what happens if they find a laptop in luggage.

The passenger isn't present during checked luggage scanning so it would be complicated to try to give the laptop to the passenger. The obvious alternatives look like theft and are extremely inconvenient. (Oh joy, I'm at my destination and my laptop isn't.)

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#366

Post by Dayshine »

notorandit wrote: post #147

> Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The PC will overheat as a result of that action. Any resulting damage will not be covered by the Dell warranty. A PC in sleep/hibernate/standby mode is not OFF. It's in a (very) low power mode.

Hibernate is off. You can pull the battery and put it back just fine.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#367

Post by RandallBrown »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #278
ubermonkey wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm along-term Mac laptop user, and your experience doesn't track to mine at all. I've never had one of mine get hot in a bag. Wake from sleep is nearly instant, and always has been. I will cop to hearing the fans more often since I switched to running two 4K screens with it, but I'm not sore about that.

But I didn't list either of those issues? Are you replying to the correct person?

> I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used.

The whole post is about Dell XPS laptops not being able to be used in a bag so when you said "it's as shitty" we could assume you were also talking about those issues.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#368

Post by quasarj »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

"Modern Standby" is such a crock of shit. As far as anyone knows, it doesn't do anything useful, but it consumes FIFTY PERCENT (50%!) of the battery each night.

Luckily you can turn it off, at least in Linux, and then the machine functions more-or-less normally.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#369

Post by vbezhenar »

sprayk wrote: post #186
kawsper wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fedora doesn't even create swap partitions anymore, so you have to enable that first to enable hibernation, enabling it requires you to create a swap-partition, change things in systemd and meddle with the grub-configuration: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/fedora-hibernate.html

if you use secure boot, you cannot use hibernation under fedora (or any Linux, afaik) since there is no way to "seal" the hibernation image from modification by an attacker who could mount the swap on another OS where they have root. this is regardless of disk encryption.

Secure boot is not that useful anyway. I'm kind of security freak, but I decided that security boot is not worth it. My disk is encrypted to protect from stolen laptop. My BIOS and grub have password to protect from someone using keyboard. Scenario with someone meddling with my boot partition and replacing my kernel with modified one is just not realistic for my life. So just disable it and enjoy proper hibernation, that's my opinion.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#370

Post by ymosy »

mirker wrote: post #301
zokier wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hibernation in Windows hasn't gone anywhere. I have a Dell laptop in front of me and it has hibernate in the start menu as normal. Problem is that hibernation is slooow so people don't like to use it

I am quite confused. I thought Windows 10 “fast boot” was hibernation and default “shutdown” behavior. I thought Windows 10 startup times were faster because of hibernation shortcutting the real boot sequence.

Windows 8 and later enable “fast boot” by default which, on shutdown, logs the user out of the current session and then hibernates the logged out state of the OS by writing the RAM contents to disk.

“Full” hibernation is still there, it’s just disabled by default in the UI but not on the OS level.

There’s also this “hybrid sleep” concept introduced since Vista where an OS would go from Sleep state to Hibernate automatically after 180 minutes of Sleep (IIRC, also can be overridden by the OEM) to save the laptop battery further since after the laptop hibernates it’s effectively off.

It’s really confusing and a hell to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. I think Microsoft was trying to apply smart decisions on the OS level _for_ the user but there’s no real indication of what’s actually happening with the system. The naming doesn’t help either, especially after “Modern Sleep” has been introduced.

EDIT: I decided to check myself because I wasn’t sure and it turns out I was indeed wrong. “Hybrid Sleep” is actually about a device going to Sleep and Hibernate simultaneously - it’s so that you can still resume from the hibernated image on the disk in case battery dies while in Sleep. At the same time, you can resume from Sleep right away even before parallel hibernation is finished. I think the intention is that you kinda get the best of both worlds here.

The behavior of going to sleep to hibernate after some time which I’ve described originally is actually something that was there since at least Windows XP.

Post reply on HN