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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#361

Post by munchbunny »

kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #243
briefcomment wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the best colleagues I've worked with aced the SAT and/or other standardized tests. I would hate to not be able to refer to them while interviewing job candidates. Honestly, standardized test scores and some case study type questions would be sufficient to make a decision (along with 1 on 1 convos). I hope a decision like this opens a channel for smart people to get to employment without having to go to school or…

You......ask what people got on the SATs in your job interview?

Google used to ask college candidates (I was asked). I don't know if they still do.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#362

Post by enaaem »

Im from the Netherlands and US education seems to be worst of both socialism and capitalism: lack of choice and sky high prices.

In the Netherlands we have:

Free choice of high school. I grew up in the poorest neighbourhood of the city and I still went to a very decent high school with classmates from all backgrounds.

More and smaller high schools. More choice and competition between schools. Schools are subsidised based on the amount of students they attract.

High school programs have different difficulty levels. Everyone follows a program that matches their academic ability. If you finish the highest level (VWO) you are generally granted access to all universities. American university application feels like a job interview. You have one chance to impress. Dutch (European) university application is like a 6 year internship where you can proof yourself.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#363

Post by golemiprague »

908B64B197 wrote: post #132
Causality1 wrote: post #74

Aligning enrollment with state demographics would require cutting the share of those students by almost two-thirds. My best friend growing up was Korean. I saw firsthand the amount of effort he put into his studies. Why should we allow any institution to invalidate his work because our culture produces lazier, dumber students? Why should we artificially prop up patterns of thought and behavior that have negative effe…

I can only wonder if in a few years some company will have an unspoken rule about scoring candidates, thanks to all the affirmative action and "holistic admissions". With these policies, an Asian male has to be extremely talented to land a spot at a good state school/ivy.

[dead]

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#364

Post by netr0ute »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #312
harmegido wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe 1500/1600 is top 2%, so it's weird you'd consider that not "well" to me.

It’s not good enough to get into any top school, and top 2% is simply not good enough when it’s effectively the same as the top 20%.

It's enough to get into any state school, and many people in places like MIT/Harvard/other-here have scores around yours.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#365

Post by jbluepolarbear »

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

I took the SAT the first year they added the essay. It wasn’t optional and they had no accommodations for people with disabilities. I would have much rather had a score of 1500/1600 than the dumb 1700/2400 I got.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#367

Post by BitwiseFool »

klipt wrote: post #360
BitwiseFool wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My high-school's college admissions advisors told us, in no uncertain terms, if you are non-white or mixed race, make sure you declare that because it will help your chances.

Unless you're Asian, in which case declaring your race will lower your admission chances even relative to white people.

We actually had a few Pacific Islanders express anxiety with selecting "Asian American/Pacific Islander" because they were worried that identifying as such would subject them to more competition. They were advised to do it anyways.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#368

Post by dcow »

dcow wrote: post #343
908B64B197 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

No it shouldn't, but as a society we seem to want it to so it does. Sowell has an interesting take on AA and believes it actually does more harm than good because it pits those subject to it against scenarios they have not been prepared to handle and thus in turn results in over-stress, higher rates of failure, and ultimately disillusionment.

The means at which we arrive upon AA is even suspect:

A: We want equality, why are white people successful?

B: Clearly because they went to a good college.

C: Okay easy, let’s put the underprivileged into good colleges, that should fix ‘er right up.

It doesn't seem like anybody is interested in solving the hard problem of why underprivileged communities aren’t producing good high school graduates. Maybe it has something to do with, IDK, the fact that they’re under served and underprivileged? Maybe primary education is a more important factor than the name at the top of your college transcript? Maybe good communities produce outstanding colleges and universities, not the other way around? Yet we can’t seem to spend money on primary education or figure out how to help struggling communities. Why is that?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#369

Post by Spivak »

austincheney wrote: post #336
fridif wrote: post #192

Don't understand the hate for the SAT. Where I went to school, students would just beg their teachers for better grades and it literally worked. I did average on my SAT compared to my ex-gf in college (top 30 US school) but I ran a 3.8 in college compared to her being a C student. Doesn't matter anyway because none of the stuff I learned in college is used in my daily job as a java developer.

SAT is a standardized test of academic performance, where in there is an affirmed bias in what criteria you qualify as education worth testing. That bias is substantially amplified by dedicated preparation, which requires assets that are egalitarian. This means wealthy families are substantially advantaged in SAT test performance. As a measure of preparation more than potential it may well serve as strong indicator f…

I don’t know why you were immediately downvoted. This is precisely why places are doing the whole holistic thing which isn’t some mysterious quota thing but giving applicants the ability to show off their talents in whatever their strengths are however they manifest. If you’re bad a standardized testing your app won’t immediately hit the trash. But if you are then by all means put your scores on your application.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#370

Post by rayiner »

Spivak wrote: post #357
paulpauper wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. when we hear about 'promoting opportunity' , what they mean is is we need more of groups X and Y and less Z. Motte and bailey at its finest.

Any change to the college admissions process will positively affect some groups and negatively affect others. There will always be some controversy over whether any change actually makes it fairer or whether the changes were made to achieve a specific outcome.

> Any change to the college admissions process will positively affect some groups and negatively affect others.

That embeds some really questionable assumptions about “some groups.”

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