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Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

cnn.com

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Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#361

Post by schroffl »

fzzzy wrote: post #358
lrdswrk00 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a grower and have moved up consistently in my career over the last decade from IT helpdesk to devops lead, with a company that’s profitable, and currently many rounds of demos deep with two very big businesses I can’t even tell you what industry we’re in that’s how new and weird this tech is. Sounds like you made being high your identity. To me it’s like coffee (which I drink sparingly as caffeine messes me…

Anecdotal, but caffeine is the drug that has messed my life up the worst.

In what way?

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#362

Post by pmoriarty »

jbuhbjlnjbn wrote: post #233
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Typically when I was young, you kept smoking until you reached the desired level of intoxication then stopped. Do people do it differently now?

Exactly. The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough. You don't eat until the food is empty (ok well, sometimes we do..), you eat until you are full. I find it disappointing the same'ol propaganda reapp…

"The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough."

That's not always true -- especially among new, naive users.

I knew someone who for their first time smoked an entire joint because they thought that was a single dose.

Unsurprisingly, they had a bad time because they basically overdosed... and that was more than a decade ago, when cannabis was significantly less potent than it is now.

I'm sure there are plenty of new users today who repeat the same mistake with dire (psychological) consequences.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#363

Post by pmoriarty »

seph-reed wrote: post #182
macksd wrote: post #47

>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…

I get schizophrenia from smoking pot. But I also know people who get it who've never been pot heads. Something about THC is at the center of this. And also something about age. I used to be able to smoke as much as I wanted and just enjoy it, then one day it started making me crazy.. and I kept smoking for a few years and truly lost my mind. I've heard this story countless times... something (usually around age 20) j…

"I've heard this story countless times... something (usually around age 20) just snaps, and suddenly THC == paranoia."

It's common for people to smoke more and more cannabis as their tolerance grows, and higher doses of cannabis can easily lead to paranoia and other adverse mental effects.

If these people took a long break and then tried the smallest amount of the weakest pot they could get, they might find that they can enjoy it again without getting paranoid.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#364

Post by RIMR »

nimroddy wrote: post #113
hereforphone wrote: post #2

I can only speak from personal experience, which is of course limited. I smoked occasionally in my 20s, but not since (I'm middle-aged now). I've been friends and acquaintances with many people that smoke a lot. I see a trend among these people - not necessarily schizophrenia (I'm not a psychologist and probably wouldn't even notice a mild case) - but instead a consistent arrogance and self-importance. It's peculiar…

> consistent arrogance and self-importance Unfortunately, these words are vague and will only facilitate people projecting their own definitions onto them in order to either support or deny your claim. If there is a CEO making 500% more than some engineer, and some engineer complains about that, then someone may say, "Hey that person is just some engineer, how self-important and arrogant to complain to the CEO like t…

Yeah, I'm a daily pot-smoker and many of my friends are too, and we're all generally doing great at our careers and personal lives. I did some reflecting upon reading this comment to ensure that I'm not some sort of narcissistic stoner who doesn't get any feedback, but I really can't see that in myself or any of the people I know who are heavy smokers.

I'm worried that OP is just looking down on their pot-smoking peers through the lens of stereotypes with a "that's a lot of confidence for a pothead" attitude instead of recognizing that they're legitimately happy, confident people - traits they likely aren't as critical of when they comes from others.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#365

Post by jbuhbjlnjbn »

pmoriarty wrote: post #362
jbuhbjlnjbn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough. You don't eat until the food is empty (ok well, sometimes we do..), you eat until you are full. I find it disappointing the same'ol propaganda reapp…

"The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough." That's not always true -- especially among new, naive users. I knew someone who for their first time smoked an entire joint because they thought that was a…

Right, I made more hidden assumptions, I was not thinking of first-timers. If legalized, this could be better controlled, similar to alcohol. The information could also be more honest.

Of course there are also alcohol first-timers who get abolutely shit-faced, that's a really bad trip as well. Probably also some who die of alcohol poisoning.

I'm curious, why did you say "dire (psychological) consequences", what do you mean by that?

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#366

Post by eurasiantiger »

samatman wrote: post #186
jborichevskiy wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, there's also popcorn lung to worry about. Think the research is still out on this one.

Popcorn lung is called that because of a specific adulterant which is no longer used in nicotine vapes, and was never prevalent in cannabis vapes. There is also the risk of getting an illegal cannabis cartridge tainted with Vitamin E, which can be avoided completely if one is lucky enough to live under a medicinal or recreational regime. It can't be said that vaping is completely harmless, but it's safe to say that r…

Note that the parent comment only applies to liquid vaporizers which function identically to ”e-juice” nicotine vaporizers (not Juul, which is a nicotine salt vaporizer). The safe ones typically contain cannabinoid extracts in a terpene solution.

There are also vaporizers that use dry plant material directly without liquids, e.g. from Storz&Bickel, Arizer, Pax, etc.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#367

Post by eurasiantiger »

dmos62 wrote: post #309
croes wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice try. A little bit too much? It's about heavy use. Heavy use of marijuana can lead to shizophrenia, heavy use of alcohol can kill you or at least severely damage your brain or liver. Not to mention the number of secondary victims of alcohol through drunk driving or violence. Compare that to marijuana and alcohol is the bigger problem.

I'll add that alcoholism's social and psychological effects can be extreme. Some cultures have experienced it more than others. A close relative had that since ~30 years of age until death at ~80 years of age. During his twenties he abstained. Then it was social drinking, then it became more frequent, then he started becoming dysfunctional, not being able to perform in his professional life, all the while his mental…

Almost any drug would have been better as long as the supply was clean and stable.

Even heroin can be used intravenously for decades as long as proper caution is observed, but that tends to become a low priority if availability and thus price fluctuates. If quality fluctuates, death by overdose is a matter of time. The opioid epidemic is no joke, but it took a turn for the worse once doctors stopped prescribing opioids and supplies dried out, making people pay inflated prices and/or switch to fentanyl.

At least alcohol is available, so people don’t drink mouthwash.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#368

Post by eurasiantiger »

heavyset_go wrote: post #299
mthoms wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: My half-sister is a diagnosed schizophrenic and life-long weed smoker. It seems to me (and her doctors agree) that the two are absolutely related. She was likely predisposed to schizophrenia (because of her father - which we don't share) but I often wonder if it would have progressed the way it did absent the heavy smoking. I say this also as a pot smoker myself (but only lightly in the past decade or so).…

People with schizophrenia-related disorders are likely to use substances to deal with the negative symptoms[1] of the disorders. For example, there is a high correlation between having schizophrenia and consuming nicotine[2]: > A strong association between schizophrenia and tobacco smoking has been shown in worldwide studies. Smoking is especially high in those diagnosed with schizophrenia, with estimates ranging fro…

This is meaningless, since it conflates tobacco smoking with pure nicotine. In reality, tobacco smoke contains dozens if not hundreds of different psychoactive chemicals, and certain ones acting as monoamine oxidase inhibitors contribute heavily to tobacco dependence.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#369

Post by eurasiantiger »

Shindi wrote: post #245
mthoms wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: My half-sister is a diagnosed schizophrenic and life-long weed smoker. It seems to me (and her doctors agree) that the two are absolutely related. She was likely predisposed to schizophrenia (because of her father - which we don't share) but I often wonder if it would have progressed the way it did absent the heavy smoking. I say this also as a pot smoker myself (but only lightly in the past decade or so).…

> Now... I'm absolutely convinced that marijuana use can have absolutely catastrophic mental health implications for some people. I'm also convinced it can help people with certain conditions. Absolutely. I am cutting down on weed after seeing it wreck a friend. They were really bright and down to Earth, but they use weed to deal with anxiety and now need to smoke before hanging out with friends. Now they are fully d…

Is weed legal and culturally accepted where you live?

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#370

Post by euthymiclabs »

caymanjim wrote: post #237
euthymiclabs wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychiatrist (and addiction psychiatrist in training) here. I agree that calling substance use disorders a disease is highly problematic. However, I think that while the majority of people who use substances don't have a problem, there are many people who use substances in a maladaptive (or disordered) way that dramatically impacts their ability to function, and we need a name to describe that. Substance use disorder…

Thanks for replying. I agree with what you've said, and agree that it's helpful to have a term for use that dramatically impacts a person's ability to function. "Use disorder" here does seem to be a reasonable, neutral term for differentiating between normal (or even heavy) use that doesn't cause significant problems and use (at any level) that does cause significant problems (physical, mental, financial, or social).…

Agreed. This paper https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMra1602872 (which isn't available open access, unfortunately) argues that the brain changes in substance use are more likely normal learning associated with very strong stimuli than actual disease processes. I find this to be a more helpful, optimistic, and accurate interpretation of the data than the disease model. (And it really complements the other evidence-based interventions for substance use disorders we have!)
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