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Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

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Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#361

Post by michaelmrose »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #291
freeone3000 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the average windows user. This person uses Chrome because they got a popup when they went to Gmail. The shortcut for candy crush is still in their start menu because it doesn't bother anything. I am not being insulting -- this is the average, median windows user. This is the person for whom Windows Home is designed. There is ZERO CHANCE that this user knows what a "speculative execution mitigation" is. There…

Yes, so Microsoft has to make the decision for them. I'm not sure "we're going to make your computer 30% slower because there's a 0.0001% chance someone could steal your password" is the right decision. (These numbers are completely made up. Any decision would depend on getting the right numbers, but this appears to be easier said than done. I've seen very different estimates.)

What is the chance that this user has unbacked up data that someone could extort them for $500. Multiply this chance by the proportion who would enable a "go faster" option and then by 1.5 billion computers.

Let us say 20% and 25% * 1.5B. Maybe 75M targets give or take depending on how you want to do the math.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#362

Post by michaelmrose »

Causality1 wrote: post #281
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is really what's making the difference... I wonder if these mitigations shouldn't be automatically enabled for home users. The chances of Spectre or Meltdown actually managing to acquire sensitive data seems incredibly low. Is that worth the very large performance impact?

Until there's an actual documented in the wild attacks against individuals, I see zero reason to enable these crippling security measures on my home desktop.

Isn't the fact that mitigations are widely deployed the primary reason why there aren't substantial attacks in the wild?

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#364

Post by mrweasel »

seam_carver wrote: post #324

I replaced my laptop with HDD with SSD and Win10 is usable again. Did the same with my 2011 Desktop.

You can't really run Windows on an HDD anymore... well you can, but it's not a good experience.

It feels like all the speed we got from SSDs, and to some extent faster CPUs are quickly being consumed by Window, leaving us at the same speeds we had in 2010.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#365

Post by N00bN00b »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #174
N00bN00b wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using hibernate for years now. I start my computer once per month. I really wouldn't care if it takes 5 minutes. I'm not sure why that isn't shown by default anymore. But you can still add it to the menu and map it to the power button.

It isn't shown because on 10 "power off" is a lightly-tweaked hibernate.

Not at all.

Power off closes all your apps, hibernate doesn't.

I'm generally using 15 or 20 apps. I only have to open those once a month after updates.

If someone uses power off, they have to open them daily (I know, because I have other computers in my house configured like that).

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#366

Post by alternatetwo »

samplatt wrote: post #316
ksec wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what I have been banging on about for years . Latency added, not just in Software, but in Hardware as well from Display, Keyboard, Mouse and even Network. The past 20+ years the whole industry nearly went all out on optimising for throughput. Sometimes I look at macOS, Windows 10. Apart from some UI facelift I dont even remember a single user feature that was relevant or important in the past 5 years. Apart f…

>Sometimes I look at macOS, Windows 10. Apart from some UI facelift I dont even remember a single user feature The user "feature" that comes quickest to mind for Windows 10 was the first run of calc.exe showing a popup notification begging for a 5-star rating in the Microsoft Store. The fucking CALCULATOR . Literally the first and most basic function any computer ever had, which has had NO ui changes in the million s…

I installed the Win7 calculator, and it works like a charm. The no-hex functionality and splash screen really are terrible. I was used to start typing immediately after win+r calc ...

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#367

Post by bscphil »

marcosdumay wrote: post #164
boba7 wrote: post #5

Anyone finally willing to admit that w10 is unusable on Hard Drives while Linux and W7 work fine on them?

Win10 is perfectly fine on HDDs. You just have to install Linux on the bare metal, and create a Win10 VM leaving at least 3GB of RAM to the Linux caches. This is faster than W10 on bare metal with SSD and the same physical amount of RAM.

Do you have any benchmarks illustrating the difference?

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#368

Post by mackrevinack »

nmstoker wrote: post #151

These speed issues are annoying but the thing that kills my experience is the lost clicks - and when one is missed, because it's quite common that Windows is just being its usual useless self, you then don't know for sure if it really missed the click or not. Invariably the time you think "it did miss it, try again", you'll click again only to find that now your slow Windows machine is stupidly struggling to do the d…

that's one of the main reasons why i switched to linux. double clicking a file in windows to open it but it would activate file renaming instead. this was all on their surface book 2 which you would think would be fast enough but it used to happen quite a bit. ive been using windows since xp as well so its not like i don't know how to double click things. its something that only started happening a few years ago

anyway, linux is great now. clicking only selects or opens a file, to rename you have to open the right click menu or press F2

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#369

Post by bscphil »

cmurf wrote: post #285
jokoon wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. Back in 2020, after one update, windows 10 was taking about 5min to boot on a thinkpad, if not more. Had to install a SSD, changed everything. Pretty curious to hear what kernel developer or filesystem developers have to say about this, because it doesn't really make sense to me. I can understand why something would stop working, but not to just become slow. In what world does a system change result in worse…

Maybe Microsoft removed the optimizations for rotational devices? XFS is considering it: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-xfs/20200514103454.GL2040@drea...

As I read that email, it seems to be saying the opposite:

> We know when the underlying storage is solid state - there's a "non-rotational" field in the block device config that tells us the storage doesn't need physical seek optimisation. We should make use of that.

In other words, the changes under consideration should only apply when they know they're using solid state storage. Is there information elsewhere which contradicts that?

Indeed, it seems very surprising that XFS might consider removing optimizations for slower drives. It's a very popular file system in the enterprise, and anyone still storing large amounts of data is very likely to still be using rotational drives because of the massive cost difference.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#370

Post by aitchnyu »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #352
tallanvor wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benchmarks are hard to compare. He's using a VM and a fairly small amount of RAM (I don't know of many PCs only shipping with 4GB RAM these days). I can say that Word takes about 2 seconds to open on my system, but I'm not running in a VM and I have 48GB RAM, so Windows can cache a lot to optimize opening times.

4GB is actually pretty common for "budget" laptops in india. Check out Amazon.in and search for laptops. Anything above 40,000 inr is in the higher than budget, cheap range. For the past few years, there has been a trend of buying refurbished devices. Laptops and desktops. I bought a Dell e7440 with I7 5th gen I think and 4GB RAM. For 22,000 bucks. I had to upgrade to 8 gigs myself but 4 is pretty standard here. Oh,…

Lots of Indian laptops come with HDDs. Even my office laptop, after 2 promotions. When I got an SSD a few years back, I realised random failures in dev tools were not normal, there were lots of bottlenecks.
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