The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air • Hacker News Board

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#361

Post by eloisant » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

CosmicShadow wrote: post #260

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

I'm actually using my moleskine quite a bit, but it's frustrating because everything is chronological, all mixed up. I'm not using it enough to justify having different ones for all activities. And when it's full and I get a new one I never have have my older one at hand, it stays at home.

So this kind of tablet looks really nice...

The reason I prefer to write on my moleskin rather than my laptop is because if I have my laptop, I get distracted and I do stuff I'm not supposed to.

Additionally I find it rude to be on your laptop when you're in a meeting, because people might think you're doing other stuff, and also because having your screen between you and other people creates a kind of "barrier".

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#362

Post by asdff » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

jader201 wrote: post #202

wastholm wrote: post #111

I bought a Remarkable 2 a month or two ago because I wanted a cool hackable e-ink Linux computer. But instead I immediately started using it as an e-book and document reader and note-taking pad, and nothing else. And, so far at least, that's perfect. The screen is beautiful (a bit gray, but the black is really black so the contrast is still good), the device is thin and reasonably light, I only have to charge it once…

> I have even rediscovered the visceral pleasantness of writing by hand. A bit unrelated, but I’ve often wondered if I’m in the minority that hates writing by hand. Compared to typing, I’m much slower, and it looks terrible — I print in caps just so that it’s remotely legible. I avoid handwriting at all costs, and loath the few times it’s required.

It might seem obvious but the less you write the more illegible your handwriting seems to you. I noticed this during school. Over summers I would pretty much never have to handwrite anything, and in august I had all the same gripes that you do about my slow illegible terrible looking handwriting. Those kinks would be worked out two weeks into the school year, after your hand is back in shape from writing notes 8+ hours a day.

The other thing about handwriting is that you remember things better. The act of transmuting something you've heard, put it into a thought, then taking that thought and stroking out words on a distinct location on a physical page taps into all these levels of comprehension and processing that you just miss if you take the stenographer approach with a keyboard and transcribe directly what you hear, or even writing digitally on the exact same 8x10 screen day in day out. I've fallen asleep in lectures with my hands on the keyboard mid sentence typing up some note, because the effort required by your brain is so much smaller and you are not nearly as engaged as when you are actually stroking out words and in the background thinking about how to fit relevant information on a unique 8'x11' sheet of paper.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#363

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

hyperpallium2 wrote: post #79

TFA mentions word processing - has anyone tried eink text editing (say, vim, via termux on Boox android), for developing? Long dreamt of this.

I've got an Onxy BOOX with the optional (and cheap!) Bluetooth keyboard.

As this is an Android device, Termux (a Linux userland for Android) is available (through F-Droid). So yes, both vim and emacs (as well as a slew of other editors).

I've done some light editing on the device, and the display is generally suitable. My main gripe is that there's no way to position the device and keyboard in my lap in a stable format (a kickout selfsupporting folio case, as I have for an earlier Android tablet, would be better).

And: as with all Android devices, the OS chooses to kill what the OS chooses to kill, when it wants, for memory GC purposes. So that shell session may suddenly cease to be at any point (usually when backgrounded and you're tending to other affairs). This is ultimately a dealbreaker. Android is simply not suitable to Real Work.

(You could use Termux + keyboard + ssh + screen/tmux to work on another remote system, of course, but that's not nearly as portable, unless you're carrying that remote system with you at all times as well.)

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#364

Post by eloisant » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

MivLives wrote: post #338

jagger27 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if something like old school Graffiti (from Palm OS) would work for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_(Palm_OS)

Does anything modern support this? Does the remarkable? Because this would be killer for me. I have terrible hand writing and being able to type without hauling out a keyboard would be great for notes.

There is an Android keyboard called Graffiti Pro that does exactly that.

I don't think there is anything equivalent on the Remarkable, I think the idea is handwriting then if you need you can OCR it.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#365

Post by eloisant » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #355

fragmede wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to make it personal but: Do you do this? How do you find it? It's a simple and alluring solution plus I've been looking at the remarkable2, but this answer sounds like doing the dishes. I like a empty kitchen sink, but I honestly pay someone to come in twice week to have that, because the low-rent solution of just doing the dishes is beyond me. I'm never going to sit down and review the cards, and then the benefi…

Off and on. Started on it again just yesterday, hence my comment. >I'm never going to sit down and review the cards Well, don't sit down then. Standing up flip through the cards you filled during the day and toss them into garbage, unless one is really important. You're strictly better off than writing down nothing at all during the day, which is the default state for most people.

But what kind of things to you write?

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#366

Post by akiselev » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #303

nemosaltat wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in the Navy I carried a little memoranda pad in my left breast pocket. I’d take notes each day, at the beginning of each new day, I’d carry any necessary information from the previous day to the next page and then fold the previous page along the diagonal, alternating the folds right and left each day. The effects of pulling out a notepad and jotting notes are markedly different than pulling out a phone or…

I've noticed that early on; 15 years ago, I was keeping notes on a "feature phone with sliding keyboard". I was pulled by my manager for being disrespectful after the meeting; I showed him the notes and demonstrated that I was by far the most attention / had the best retention / was most involved in the meeting, but still... the message was - it looks unprofessional, stop it. Thing is: * My handwriting sucks (I liter…

I haven't had a chance to use the remarkable 2 in an in-person meeting (covid) but with the stylus/pen and its shape, it's really obvious that it's not a consumption device. If it's flat on the conference room table, everyone in the room with decent eyesight will identify it as a monochromatic screen for note taking (as long as the pen is in the picture). Depending on camera angle, it's also obvious in video chats and easy to screen share using their app. Other thoughts:

* Remarkable's handwriting recognition is some of the best I've seen (but that's a low bar). Works well even on doctor chicken scratch but it's tied to their cloud stuff. The calligraphy pen setting helps with the aesthetics of bad hand writing

* This is why the remarkable has been a game changer for me. The pen selection tool allows me to draw an arbitrary shape and selects all strokes that fall within it. I can then drag or copy/cut/paste the selection, which I use all the time to rearrange my diagrams and copy/paste bits that I draw with a straightedge as a template. The big missing pieces are shape drawing tools and an infinite canvas so you can infinite scroll to the sides to keep drawing but with pinch to zoom, I usually just zoom way into a page when I open a notebook i know is going to be huge. Even zoomed out the resolution on the display makes it really readable (I can barely identify individual "pixels" with a 10x loupe)

* If the process of hand drawing/writing/annotating doesn't appeal to you or help with retention, the remarkable 2 is a really expensive ebook reader... with ssh.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#367

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #303

nemosaltat wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in the Navy I carried a little memoranda pad in my left breast pocket. I’d take notes each day, at the beginning of each new day, I’d carry any necessary information from the previous day to the next page and then fold the previous page along the diagonal, alternating the folds right and left each day. The effects of pulling out a notepad and jotting notes are markedly different than pulling out a phone or…

I've noticed that early on; 15 years ago, I was keeping notes on a "feature phone with sliding keyboard". I was pulled by my manager for being disrespectful after the meeting; I showed him the notes and demonstrated that I was by far the most attention / had the best retention / was most involved in the meeting, but still... the message was - it looks unprofessional, stop it. Thing is: * My handwriting sucks (I liter…

It'd be interesting to try hooking up some basic storage to a keyboard and just touch type without having a screen handy

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#368

Post by ducleonctor » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

Using a HLTE202N to type this, that phone has changed how I view the web on mobile.

Textual information is perceived more clearly and less noisy/biased due to E Ink screen.

Great for navigation under sunlight and lasts very long with backlight disabled.

It's always a small shock to temporarily use a regular Android/iPhone, so noisy and glaring in my eyes.

Wouldn't want to switch back to an OLED phone. Only reason would be color video/photo viewing.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#369

Post by d0mine » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

plutonorm wrote: post #282

CosmicShadow wrote: post #260

I'm always super intrigued by the reMarkable 2, but I think it's because it paints an image of the type of person I think it'd be cool to be, someone who can just write down notes and draw stuff with a really cool, slim device. Someone who carries around moleskines and uses them, instead of just buying so many of them in different shapes and leaving them in a drawer packed to the brim with notebooks. The problem keep…

You have different selves working at different time scales. Your problem is that your short term self is winning out against your long term self. The remedy is to learn to hold your attention where you want it, so when the short term self directs your attention to the line of cocaine you can keep it on the long term goal instead. To get better at directing your attention... meditate, particularly deeply focusing on a…

You can meditate (it possible that it works for somebody). It is easier to create an environment where you don’t have to exercise the control most of the time e.g., don’t buy/put cookies on the kitchen table unless you intend to eat them. Though one doesn’t exclude another one.

Make it easy for your “short-term” self to do the right (from the “long-term” self point of view) thing.

Re: The rise of E Ink Tablets and Note Takers: reMarkable 2 vs Onyx Boox Note Air

#370

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

mattowen_uk wrote: post #82

I want to switch fully to digital magazines (as PDFs or via the publishers apps), but I can't find the right hardware to do this. I've worked out that for almost 100% scaling of a magazine PDF, I need about a 13" screen, in 4:3 ratio (or thereabouts). 16:9 ratio is just too tall and thin. e-ink devices seem too expensive for this single use-case, as does the iPad Pro, which although ideal is massive overkill. I've ev…

For any current publications, you can probably get by with slightly reduced page-size, so a 10" device should still present most current and well-typeset content at full-page width.

Most e-book readers have an option to specify in-page navigation of a document, generally into four quadrants, read either in "ᴎ" or "Z" flow (first is "article", second is "comic book" navigation"). This effectively quadruples screen resolution, at the cost of a slight decrease in fidelity to the original experience. Given the cost trade-offs in devices (~$340 for 7.8", $800 for 13.3") this may be acceptable.

That said, I splurged on the 13.3" Max Lumi. The first time I was faced with a less-than-perfect scan of a three-column article first published in the 1970s that I could comfortably read at full size (with just a smidge of margin trim), it was worthwhile. If your budget constraint is stronger, you still have options.

Most book texts read fine at 8", so the compromise is not something you'll be seeing all the time.