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Poor in Tech

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Re: Poor in Tech

#361
post #299
post #130

I ate the free "cheetos" (unfortunately, they were actually peatos), the free breakfast, used the occasional paracetamol tablet, got too drunk at parties and ate half the canapés, said hi to the cleaners, couldn't work out why everyone was so into snowboarding, failed horribly at networking, had an android, lived in the needles and shootings part of the Tenderloin, was just over the obese BMI when I left, and have ne…

Funny story: the main investor at my previous startup was a multibillionaire, one of the richest men in Canada (via his captive VC fund). He came to visit us maybe 3–4 times, and each time he'd make a beeline for the goldfish crackers in our canteen.

I can relate to this guy.

Not about the billionaire part, but about the goldfish part. Good to know that we at least have something in common.

Re: Poor in Tech

#362

I'm from a "poorish" family, but from Europe. Some stuff is relatable some is not: - People ordering lunch always felt weird for me, in my mind I think "why should I pay 10€ for a bowl of salad, when I can go to the grocery store below the office and have the same for 1€", or even better pay 70 cents for the raw vegetables, wash them and chop them in the office and they will last 3 days - Student debt doesn't apply,…

I'm from Spain and I find relatable. I've been in places where I didn't have to eat, so when people orders food every day I just compute in my head how much money goes to waste.

Another thing that I do, is consider the ability to repair tech without lock-in. Being a techie poor teachs you to be careful about this decisions, but people seem perfectly fine to be locked in and just buy new stuff every time.

There has been a lot of time since I don't buy new tech. My phone is second hand, my laptop is a second hand ThinkPad, I have two Eizo Screens that came through ebay, my upgraded desktop has an I5 from ebay, and RAM is probably second hand too, I don't remember.

Re: Poor in Tech

#363
People don't change. "poor" in mind will always be "poor" even if surpass Elon Musk. What kind of stories one feed himself/herself on daily basis defines him/her. I am just at ease that everyone is screwed in his/her own way including me. Humans..

Re: Poor in Tech

#364
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tl;dr Poor people (and racial and ethnic minorities, and women, and queer folk) are not dumb. They just have to turn their equal cognitive resources towards things other (and more fundamental to survival) than their magnum opus/business idea/etc. Those who overcome this are HIGHLY effective, but it's not fair that we ask it of them. That's not how an effective or efficient or just society runs, and we leave money on…

No, the solution is to acknowledge that they are dumb and therefore focus resources with the assumption that they are dumb. USA assumes that poor people are smart, Europe assumes poor people are dumb. The European way is much better, and yes poor people in American are dumb, just like they are in Europe.

So your intelligence is based on how much money your parents made? Your intrinsic ability to be educated is a function of someone else's wallet? Something seems off in this statement. I wish your parents had money, then your statement would probably be coherent!

Re: Poor in Tech

#365

I'm from a "poorish" family, but from Europe. Some stuff is relatable some is not: - People ordering lunch always felt weird for me, in my mind I think "why should I pay 10€ for a bowl of salad, when I can go to the grocery store below the office and have the same for 1€", or even better pay 70 cents for the raw vegetables, wash them and chop them in the office and they will last 3 days - Student debt doesn't apply,…

I grew up dirt poor in a police no-go zone, went on to spend roughly 18 months in homeless hostels over a few years, etc.

Honestly, I feel like lots of these are related to being a poorly paid member of the tech company or having work at more working class companies.

When I started out, I literally ate toast for lunch every day because it was provided and I had no other money as time went on I got paid more and I was spending 15-25 every day on lunch. I was spending more on lunch than some people I knew would spend on food for their entire week.

The bonus at my current company was a massive issue for nearly everyone. It was constantly talked about for months because the company screwed up their finances and were talking ages to figure out what the bonus should be. Nearly everyone in my company comes from a middle class background and majority make decent money.

And the thing about the gym is probably on them, the gym is full of people all trying to better themselves and some of the most supportive people you will meet will be the gym. I would routinely tell people they look awesome and I was in awe, I would have random people come up and say well done to me that I was doing well. There are a few people who only want to hang around with other gym rats but 99% are just normal people. I remember talking to a woman who is super hot and even she felt intimidated by the gym.

The thing about stealing is a serious issue for working class companies. So many warehouses for example have security to search employees because they know if they don't lots of their product will walk out of the door with employees. I had friends that would talk about how they stole from their companies. I also heard a bunch of stories of people stealing when a company shut down.

Re: Poor in Tech

#366

Many of the comments on this article are so cold. I can’t believe it. When I read the original article I was imagining all the constructive ways HN readers would interpret it and hold a mirror up to their own behaviour. Some commenters are doing this. But it surprises and depresses me how many people are commenting saying “no, this list isn’t what it says it is, it’s a list showing the author has a negative mindset /…

You’re the top comment on HN right now. What are you exactly complaining about?

Re: Poor in Tech

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do other people say hi to every single person you see in the building every day? Yeah, pretty much.

Lol, idk if that’s true? I’ve been poor working with poor people and we did not all say hello on a regular basis

one thing that stood out to me when i was in Southampton in the UK was that every passenger on the bus would say some form of "thank you" on their way off the bus.

So, sometimes, yeah.

Re: Poor in Tech

#368
post #273

"Three paychecks is a month and a half of income (rent and two car payments by my fevered calculations, which never stop)" Pay attention to those last three words. This is very important. I've been on both sides too, and to me those words are like a slap in the face: stark reality. If you're poor enough (relative to the costs of your life) you are at a constant exhausting deficit because you CANNOT stop calculating a…

Tl;dr Poor people (and racial and ethnic minorities, and women, and queer folk) are not dumb. They just have to turn their equal cognitive resources towards things other (and more fundamental to survival) than their magnum opus/business idea/etc. Those who overcome this are HIGHLY effective, but it's not fair that we ask it of them. That's not how an effective or efficient or just society runs, and we leave money on…

I recommend the book Scarcity for anyone interested in learning more about the psychology behind this. It was written Mullainathan and Shafir, both stars in their respective fields.

Re: Poor in Tech

#369
post #128

Some interesting culture differences in there. For example, one of the reasons that soccer/football is popular worldwide is because it's very cheap. Is it not so in the US? Also the assumption that everyone takes painkillers?

> For example, one of the reasons that soccer/football is popular worldwide is because it's very cheap. Is it not so in the US? It is relatively cheap in the US as far as I know, but it's not nearly as common as basketball for pickup sports. I think the racial / class connections here are fascinating (and too lengthy to dissect here), but my general sense in the US is that soccer is actually perceived as more "other"…

To expand on this a bit the average (and many even most) poor person in America will be obese AND will have to stand a large portion of the day. Imagine your cashier at your grocery store who is not allowed to have a chair at most places in America or the fast food crew running around the Kitchen.

The combination of being overweight (and sadly the author has a lot of photos so you can see she suffers more than just the average obese person) and being on your feet most of the day leads to a culture of OTC pain killers. I come from a poor background. There are two things I can guarantee about the BBQ I go to this weekend. 1) We are all going to have at least 30 pounds on us we shouldnt and 2) EVERY woman there is going to have a bottle of Aleve in her purse to the point where I wouldn't bother trying to find my wife when my inevitable back pain starts in, I will just turn and ask whichever woman is nearby with her purse in hands and I know already she's going to say "Oh of course sweety, here you go" as she pulls out two Aleve for me.

Re: Poor in Tech

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First point: I live in Scandinavia. Poor people are just as dumb here as in USA, but we take better care of them. USA assumes that poor people should be able to take care of themselves, which doesn't work. Taking care of them doesn't make them smarter, but it makes their lives better which is the point.

That's not about smartness or dumbness, though. I don't think intelligence is correlated with poverty much, but poverty is additional difficulty, so they have to work harder for the same thing as someone who isn't poor.

But that isn't an issue where I'm from. The lifestyle difference between people with degrees and working class is tiny since the wage gaps are so small, and then add all government aids paying for everything including school lunches, daycare, college, healthcare etc on top of that. But still people from working class households perform extremely poorly. Helping them isn't about making them smarter or unlocking new potential because that doesn't work, it is simply to make everyone live a decent life.
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