Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 925 posts

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#361

Post by kiawe_fire »

guynamedloren wrote: post #325
kiawe_fire wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

I don’t understand this. Does the hypothetical low risk person hypothetically work from home and rarely go out.. forever? If no, when/what is the trigger that changes this behavior?

If going out means the hassle of wearing a mask, staying distanced, and all the other rules, then, yes.

Put another way, if going out feels like a big hassle, and getting vaccinated doesn’t remove enough of the rules to make going out NOT feel like a hassle, then there’s no reason to change one’s “going out” habits. And if there’s no incentive to change one’s “going out” habits, then there’s no reason to go through any process or procedure that only perceivably benefits you if you leave home.

I will be getting my vaccine soon myself.

But the world has changed. If I was isolated and nervous to “put myself out there” pre-pandemic, then I’m nearly agoraphobic now.

Nobody I work with wants to return to the office, nobody wants to return to having fun outings (at least not outside their own social circle).

There’s literally nothing for me to return to doing. I’ve built up a relatively solitary life with my dad in the last 12+ months, and everything outside of it is gone.

If you feel that you have so much to return to that the idea of rarely going out, forever, sounds unrealistic, then I would consider yourself lucky.

I intend to get vaccinated just to be safe to anyone I might come in contact with, but to your point, even once I get vaccinated, I honestly see no trigger to change my behavior. I highly doubt I’m alone in this.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#362

Post by Thorrez »

garmaine wrote: post #309
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

One need only go back about 80 years to find horrific abuses by public health officials in both Europe and America (e.g. involuntary sterilization, to say nothing of Nazi experimentation). What I find strange is that Europeans have such a short memory regarding these things…

Unfortunately involuntary sterilizations were happening more recently than 80 years ago too.

Virginia's compulsory sterilization law was repealed in 1974[1].

Oregon performed its last compulsory sterilization in 1981[2].

Japan didn't abolish compulsory sterilization until 1996[3].

There are reports that detained immigrants were involuntarily sterilized in 2020 in the US[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States#...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#Unite...

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3952537/

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#363

Post by codelord »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

I personally follow the CDC guidelines. I think if everyone equally trusted CDC we wouldn't have the kind of outbreaks that we have seen in the past year. So raising doubts in CDC's credibility overall is hurtful IMO. That doesn't mean we shouldn't debate a particular recommendation and take it all as Gospel. Meaningful debate about a particular issue is useful. A general statement against credibility of CDC IMO is not.

I maybe a minority here though, because I also to a large degree trust other American institutions. And that's coming from an immigrant who grew up in a country where the population is bombarded with anti-American conspiracy theories on a daily basis. The reason that I believe in American institutions is not because I take their words as Gospel. But because I believe for the most part trusting them leads to better results than the other way around.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#364

Post by MomoXenosaga »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #220

How cynical is it to question whether or not this was timed at least in part to bolster economic outlook in the face of the market shrinkage this week over inflation fears? (Experts have been asking for more explicit guidance from the CDC for months now.) Edit: for reference, up until this point, the CDC has not even been willing to concede the safety of outdoor activities: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing…

Americans are very patriotic. Singing the national anthem and waving the flag is second nature. I don't think a conspiracy is needed: every opportunity to show how great America is will be used.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#365

Post by x3iv130f »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #294
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

I don't blame the professionals for getting things wrong on this.

My personal feeling is that it was hard to know if masks worked for the general populace before Covid-19.

There are so many confounding variables that it very difficult to study masks from a public health side.

The best approximation was studies of health professionals in hospitals or clinics which doesn't exactly translate for a multitude of reasons.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#366

Post by hhh »

guynamedloren wrote: post #325
kiawe_fire wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

I don’t understand this. Does the hypothetical low risk person hypothetically work from home and rarely go out.. forever? If no, when/what is the trigger that changes this behavior?

I would prefer to wear a mask at the grocery store, but not at work when physically on-site. I'm low risk, and don't really have any desire to go out and get vaccinated mostly because I'm lazy, don't like needles, antisocial, and generally anxious in public.

I don't really ever go out willingly, so I didn't really have an incentive to get vaccinated. Now I can get vaccinated and not wear a mask at work when it's 100+F in a few months.

Now that it's socially acceptable to wear a mask when in businesses and isn't a fashion trend, I will continue to do it since it should impede facial recognition. Except if it's a bit hot, I now can choose not to :)

I think this will be a great incentive to drive vaccination rates.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#367

Post by [deleted] »

cfeduke wrote: post #348
kiawe_fire wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty logical to me. Every decision is a risk/reward calculation. The vaccine does carry the risk of side effects and adverse reactions. That risk, for most, is VERY small. But if the person in question also has very low risk of contracting or spreading Covid (works from home, rarely goes out, young, healthy) and if being vaccinated doesn’t actually enable you to live any differently than you already are, t…

The logical decision here involves civic duty. I certainly fit into the low risk category, etc., but I also exist in society and am a willing participant, and as such have certain responsibilities to other people in my community.

[deleted]

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#368

Post by andreilys »

codelord wrote: post #363
livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

I personally follow the CDC guidelines. I think if everyone equally trusted CDC we wouldn't have the kind of outbreaks that we have seen in the past year. So raising doubts in CDC's credibility overall is hurtful IMO. That doesn't mean we shouldn't debate a particular recommendation and take it all as Gospel. Meaningful debate about a particular issue is useful. A general statement against credibility of CDC IMO is n…

The CDC/surgeon general recommended not wearing masks at the beginning of the pandemic, while Silicon Valley was way ahead of the curve (meanwhile hit pieces were posted by journalists with an axe to grind saying they we’re overreacting).

So yes it has lost its credibility.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#369

Post by 8note »

livinginfear wrote: post #221

I think it's worth noting that among the demographics that frequent this site there is ostensibly a deep distrust and skepticism of the American government on matters of surveillance, and law enforcement. Yet simultaneously there is ostensibly a high degree of trust in the motives and competency of the American government when it comes to COVID. There's been multiple threads lately, including one that is on the front…

You can guess at what the motivations are for the CDC when they put out a statement.

They generally match what Id expect them to be saying, so it seems trustworthy enough, but it is confirmation bias. When they'll say something I don't expect, I think bit more about it and try to figure out why there's a mismatch.

The FBI and NSA and the like don't speak publically, and when they do, they're trying to cover up wrongdoings

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#370

Post by flukus »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #294
estaseuropano wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I'm quite surprised how deep the conspiracy theories and suspicions against the state go in the US. You don't need tp take everything at face value, but to be so suspicious of essential institutions like the CDC seems crazy to me. Except for a vocal but tiny minority there's a lot of trust in the institutions of the EU and (Western) Europe, where citizrns at most worry about incompetence, not malicious…

I think the CDC's original statements on masks (they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc) contributed a lot to the distrust and politicization of mask wearing. When you expect an institution to always be impartial and tell the truth, those sorts of white lies can quickly erode trust.

> they aren't necessary, they're only effective at preventing the spread of COVID if the wearer has a medical degree, don't wear masks on planes, etc

Everyone seems to also forget that a lot of this took place when they wrongly thought surface transmission was the main vector. The bigger problem was the delay in recognizing aerosol transmission, Chinese scientists cottoned on to this very early but the CDC and WHO dragged their feet.

We also saw everything play out and get politicized in real time in a way that's never happened before. There are lags between data and science, further lags between science and science communication and then even more from science communication to government policy. On one end of this lag you've got scientist warning of aerosol transmission, on the other side you've got Fauci still operating under the surface transmission advice leading to some very mixed messaging. Reducing this lag will be important in future.

Post reply on HN