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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#361

Post by sgtnoodle »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #222
kube-system wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that supposed to be egregious? I liked McDonalds as a kid too. You get a toy, after all. This is hardly going to harm a child: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/meal/4-piece-chicken-mcnu...

I am genuinely surprised that this part of the equation is not more troubling to more parents. Yes, the toy is is part of the draw. The question is whether this is a good thing and/or a good habit. I think it is not.

I particularly despise happy meal toys for their environmental waste. I don't think their existence negatively affects my child's psyche though. She loves books, sand, pretending to do chores like mom and dad, jumping in muddy puddles, and her stuffed rabbit named Bun-Bun. Nutritionally, a crappy "quarter pound" hamburger occasionally isn't going to affect my toddler's health, and has protein that is otherwise difficult to get her to eat.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#362

Post by nmridul »

Asia and other areas, there is the support from extended families for baby care. At night, there are grand parents / other in laws (brothers sisters) that take turn taking care of baby at night. And during day time too, you can leave babies with them and take proper rest.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#363

Post by phabora »

decafninja wrote: post #323
rapsey wrote: post #14

Western culture is different in a significant way. Individualism is valued much more than in the east. This is an established sociological fact.

One of the biggest ways I see is the idea of when to move out of your parents' household. At least in American society, it's considered imperative to move out ASAP - when leaving for college, or at the latest, upon graduating. Even if it means dumping a huge portion of your paycheck into rent for place barely 15 minutes from your parents' home. In other societies it's more common to live with your parents well into a…

That’s not the case where I live in the small non-American West.

We’ve all seen the American TV show/films where some Mega Loser has failed to move out the year they become eighteen and graduated the year they become twenty-two. Maybe it comes off as a trope for non-Americans.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#364

Post by bluGill »

watwut wrote: post #317
brudgers wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, there aren't many kids who only do Scouting...it's an over-scheduling comorbidity. For kids who resist over-scheduling, scouting seems to be one of the first things to go...because den and pack meetings are by and for adults, they never make it to a troop. Or to put it another way, teenage apathy prevalence is probably pre-teen survivor bias.

The scouting, at least here, is very time consuming. It seems to want to be your whole lifestyle.

Most actives do. Commitment is the way to win championships, so any one moment you are not practicing your sport is a chance to lose the award. That things can/should be fun is lost. Scouting is a bit better than sports, but they still want your life.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#365

Post by 3PS »

rajin444 wrote: post #194
Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

There is a long, long history of research into the grim effects of corporal punishment in child-raising. As a starting point, see the widely cited 2002 meta-analysis by Gershoff [0] as well as this other meta-analysis they did more recently which I am less familiar with [1]. I also highly recommend going through the research work of the late Murray Straus at the University of Wisconsin [2] who spent much of his time systematically analyzing how spanking harms child development in just about every single way you can imagine.

[0] Gershoff, E. T. (2002). Corporal punishment by parents and associated child behaviors and experiences: a meta-analytic and theoretical review. Psychological bulletin, 128(4), 539.

[1] Gershoff, E. T., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2016). Spanking and child outcomes: Old controversies and new meta-analyses. Journal of family psychology, 30(4), 453.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_A._Straus

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#366

Post by rajin444 »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #299
rajin444 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

Just because something was done historically doesn't make it right or correct.

I agree, and we're starting to get heavily in to epistemology here, but modern sciences do not have the ability to construct properly controlled studies, and "harder" sciences do not have enough understanding of the underlying biology to provide a definitive answer.

At best we can get a "we think it's like this", but I'm not sure I give that a higher epistemic status than tens of thousands of years of human history. This is probably a pointless discussion, since there is not enough information to reach a conclusion.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#367

Post by LegitShady »

genrez wrote: post #257
LegitShady wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, though. It mentions sids a lot but then quotes a doctor to say the research is unclear. Other countries experience sids at reduced rates but its not clear if thats because of bed sharing, and there's no evidence in the article one way or another. If they want to point out potential harmful behaviours, they should do that, and then they would get called out on doing so with little to no evidence. Instead t…

I agree that the article does choose not to say that their claims are backed with evidence. The article in fact does correctly state that they don't have evidence that bed-sharing is safer. However, they do state that room-sharing is current pediatric best practice, and provide links [1], [2] to articles to back that up. Given that as far as I know, room-sharing is not standard Western parenting practice, I believe t…

Again, this article is written poorly, the headline is pure clickbait, and its worthy of any criticism it garners.

It's great to steelman someone else's arguments in a discussion. It's terrible to let BBC print garbage with clickbait headlines without criticism, because it will keep happening, and its bad for society.

It doesn't make the point your making, and the way it goes about making its point is not something I'd accept in an inclusive society.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#368

Post by gonehome »

bluGill wrote: post #360
leetcrew wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it can be sort of futile. as a kid, you can argue, resist, or break the rules, but until you can support yourself financially, your parents get the final say on most important matters. reminds me of my first meeting with my advisor at college to pick courses for freshman year. I came in with a few ideas for courses/majors that my dad thought were practical. my advisor picked up on this almost immediately and asked "o…

There is truth to both. The problem with charting your own course as a kid is you often don't really know what is worth doing. "Underwater basket weaving" might be interesting, but it won't prepare you for any future. There are a lot of good choices though, you don't have to be a doctor just because your dad wants you to. And your dad might still be under the illusion that lawyer is a great paying job, when for the m…

I think there's a difference between a parent saying, "You should consider the economic ROI of what you choose to study, the risk of success/failure, and what life it could lead to" vs. "be a lawyer". If your kid really wants to act then they can go to LA and learn what the best way to do that is.

I think parents bias to being risk-adverse in advice for their kids because they only experience the downside risk and little of the upside from potentially riskier paths. I think a good parent would communicate some of this, but that's not a skill everyone has.

A lot parents just don't know that much and are over confident (like most people) even if their intentions for their kid are good. Others leverage their power over their kids to force them into certain paths which isn't great either.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#369

Post by bihla »

NovaJehovah wrote: post #309
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

It's possible you're coming from a very different background than me... I can understand your point of view if your context is being raised under real impoverished conditions; I agree a parent should do anything they can to meet a necessary level of stability for the child.

But this comment makes me think of what is more likely familiar to members of this forum, where parents use their children to serve their own ego, trying to do everything to yield the best "Success" for their child where success is defined by the parent. For so many of us (professionals in the tech industry), the "wellbeing of your child" is not really a question--we know we'll be able to provide food, shelter, etc. People will say they do other things for the "wellbeing" but what they really mean is living out their own failed life goals by putting that baggage on their kid.

So yeah, you got downvoted. It's possible you meant to make a more sympathetic point, but my first impression is that the comment espouses an actively harmful idea about the relation between parent and a child.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#370

Post by phabora »

lucideer wrote: post #46
agent008t wrote: post #12

Western = Anglophone? I suspect cultural norms are quite different in Italy, Greece, Spain and other countries.

These cultural norms might be less widespread in Italy, Greece, Spain, but I would say they're closer to being norms in those countries than outside of Europe. Especially with younger parents. They're certainly norms in most of the non-anglophone EU. That said, I guess a lot of that could potentially be connected to outsized anglophone/US influence in developed countries.

Do you have a lot of experience with multiple EU countries?[1] Or are you just using “outsized influence” to extrapolate that non-English speaking countries can be neatly categorized as being a homogeneous contrast to English-speaking countries?

[1] The only anglophone EU country is Ireland.

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