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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#361

Post by mister_hn »

somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

in this perspective, I'm saddened of all the electricity Bitcoin burns for futile intents. Imagine putting all these electricity for good purposes rather than making people rich.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#362

Post by pjmlp »

Grustaf wrote: post #345
somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

Did Apple ever try to prevent people from running Linux on Macs? It sounds like that is what you're saying, but my impression is quite the opposite, the made Bootcamp etc.

Almost 20 years ago when they were struggling for survival they even sponsored a Linux distribution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Dog_Linux

> Terra Soft Solutions held the unique distinction of being the only company licensed by Apple to resell Apple computers with Linux pre-installed

A fact that I bet many HNer aren't even aware of.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#363

Post by jojobas »

mister_hn wrote: post #361
somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

in this perspective, I'm saddened of all the electricity Bitcoin burns for futile intents. Imagine putting all these electricity for good purposes rather than making people rich.

Apple doesn't lose anything by opening up to other OSes (or they could single out free ones).

The hardware has already been sold, nobody's returning OSX for a refund.

If anything, they're missing out on sales to people that live by "Linux or bust" motto.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#364

Post by FootballMuse »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #348
nindalf wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> teensiest bit of cooperation Apple did put in the effort to cooperate when they added support to boot other OSes. Apple hasn’t prevented anyone from running Linux, they simply haven’t written Linux drivers for their hardware or provided a manual to do so. Most of the effort in Asahi Linux is going to be writing drivers for hardware that hasn’t had Linux drivers written for it. It makes sense that a Linux driver doe…

Apple never added support to boot other OSes on arm macs.

Yet. They also didn’t allow you to create or install third party apps on the first iPhones too

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#365

Post by sneak »

sjwright wrote: post #226
sneak wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are entitlements on macOS that are not provided outside of the App Store, such as NetworkExtension API VPNs. There is also no way to turn off the persistent, hardware-serial-number-based APNS connection to Apple, tracking the system from IP to IP whenever it's on, even when no apps are running. You also can't wipe and restore a mac with filevault without an online reactivation from Apple, even if you have local…

The matter of Filevault isn't necessarily a bad thing, for many people it's a highly desirable feature. I like the fact that iOS activation lock significantly lowered the value of stolen iPhones; I look forward to the same happening with MacBooks. And if you don't like it, just switch it off.

You can't switch it off. Every current mac requires an online reactivation, even ones without an activation lock.

How could activation lock possibly work otherwise? Once wiped, it doesn't know if it's activation locked anymore.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#366

Post by Terretta »

dusted wrote: post #360
somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

Yes. "Oh, there's this hardware where the vendor tries actively to lock people out of other platforms and lock them into their own, they're real nasty guys.. Know what we should do? We should spend a lot of time making their product better, so more people will buy it, so they can continue their policies."

From Asahi Linux FAQ:

Does Apple allow this? Don’t you need a jailbreak?

Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon macs without a jailbreak! This isn’t a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices. That means that, unlike iOS devices, Apple does not intend to lock down what OS you can use on Macs (though they probably won’t help with the development).

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#367

Post by simonh »

FootballMuse wrote: post #364
seba_dos1 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple never added support to boot other OSes on arm macs.

Yet. They also didn’t allow you to create or install third party apps on the first iPhones too

Er, like the vast majority of phones at the time. It only took them one more year to prepare and release both a dev kit and an App Store that revolutionised the industry. One year.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#369

Post by reader_mode »

midrus wrote: post #319
reader_mode wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My previous ThinkPad X1 is a superior device to my 15 inch i9 MBP (2018) in every way - thermals, keyboard, touchscreen, issues with 5k display for over a year, Bluetooth issues. I needed a Mac for iOS development so I went all out since I do all sort of development - and this is by far the worst premium device I owned. With that said M1 Macs look really good and I'll probably upgrade if they refresh the 16 inch.

I did use a thinkpad X1 for a long time some years ago, I actually want to go back to an X1, it is the best alternative. But honestly, if I go back to it would be making a good bunch of trade-offs as well and mostly to satisfy my inner wish of using Linux and Open Source software instead of Macos. But still: 1) After a few months, the screen of the thinkpad started to get permanent scratches from the keyboards. This…

I have to admit I never use trackpad - I always carry a Bluetooth mouse (keyboard as well with my MBP because of how terrible it is) and for couch surfing touch screen is king for me. I also had a yoga and would go for that X1 next - the versatility is amazing (bed/couch/travel media use in the reverse V position is 10x better than tablet and laptop)

Battery life is about equal on this MBP - it's just a terrible CPU for a mobile device. But more importantly I use battery about 1-2% of the time - ergonomics are just not good enough for it IMO.

X1 Yoga with an AMD CPU would be my ideal laptop but unfortunately it seems like AMD gets pushed to gamers and budget laptops still

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#370

Post by ungamed »

SXX wrote: post #352
gorkish wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am all about the hacker cred here, but you need only take a look at the most directly comparable project, Nouveau to get an idea of how ridiculous the thought is that greenfield reverse engineering of apple's custom GPU will result in something that is desktop-class usable and reliable. Please remember that Nouveau can't even do better than a framebuffer on anything newer than a geforce 10 series card. GPU developm…

The reason why Nouveau got stuck is because Nvidia intentionally changed firmware loading process to break Nouveau and not cooperating on providing firmware. Also part of the problem is that main Nouveau developers are from Red Hat and they are limited in terms of RE of actual Nvidia code. Unfortunately some of Nouveau contributors dropped their efforts once Nvidia began to be actively hostile to the project. If you…

It would be very possible and also related to RE code from the OSX stack though.
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