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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

361–370 of 436 posts

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#361

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You are not alone. We just have to use throwaway accounts and hide in catacombs like early Christians.

Please don't compare this nonsense to that.

To be fair, I’m sure the ones prosecuting the early christians thought it was exactly the same kind of nonsense.

It’s only in hindsight that we realize that the early christians were quite sane compared to what we have now.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#362
post #246

Same with the Oxford / AstraZeneca vaccine "No hospitalizations or severe cases of COVID-19 were reported in those receiving the vaccine." https://apnews.com/article/astrazeneca-vaccine-third-cheaper... They all seem quite promising.

Like all things with the oxford vaccine - that is only if you look at one slice of the data (in which there were no elderly)... why they didn’t include elderly is beyond me but of course there aren’t going to be severe cases in vaccinated patients 18-55

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/23/ox...

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes i read some interesting article aswell regarding mRNA vaccines, but from my understanting mRNA vaccine aren't yet tested in humans right? Only animals or am i mistaken? EDIT: what my question is: is there another mRNA type vaccine out there fully developed (i'm not suggesting that they are bad!)? EDIT2: Guys, i will never ask question again in here. Begin downvoted for a genuine question.

You're probably being downvoted because this information is easily looked up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

Honestly, it seems a tad reckless to make the first attempt at vaccination with this method one that targets the entire world population.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An individually tailored cancer treatment is already available in the form of the CAR-T therapies, which might give an indication of how expensive it’ll be - you were pretty much right on the dot, since each treatment in a course of treatments is estimated at $375,000.

In order to produce a personalized anti-cancer RNA vaccine, you need to a) do a biopsy of the tumor and some healthy tissue, which is fairly cheap, b) do genetic analysis of those samples to find the differences. This used to be prohibitively expensive, but now is fairly cheap too, the price went down six (!) orders of magnitude since 2000, c) ask specialized software to find the optimal protein set to express. This…

If the total course of treatment is closer to $40000 or $4000 then it doesn’t seem unreasonable for insurance to cover it.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the trial participants exposed to the virus purposefully or is the result that none of participants developed covid just from regular daily living?

There's a (blinded) control group so purely based on how deeply unethical it would be to purposefully expose them to the virus I'd wager they were 'natural' occurrences.

I understand how it could be unethical, though I'd be more confident in a study that had purposeful exposure - how can we say the vaccine really was the means of protection, and not just the current measures?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#366

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> Antisense drugs are much simpler, with no immune response required. The mRNA (the drug) itself simply binds to the target mRNA. Does that make them a class of "cures" rather than "immunizations"? If I get infected with the same thing a year later, will I need another dose of the antisense drug?

Yes, they are "cures". Yes, you will.

Is it correct to say that an mRNA based vaccine wouldn't work for that virus anyway if you can get infected with the same thing a year later?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit much for me to read without the right background. I'll focus on your claim, though. "Sending mRNA to human cells to produce viral proteins" describe how all of the other vaccines work. You're saying that this one uses DNA. I don't know if that's a typo or if that's an important difference. However from what I understand, the two other vaccines people are talking about don't change any of the genetic mat…

Yes, this one uses a DNA virus as a way to deposit a piece of DNA into the nucleus of a cell, so that it makes viral proteins the way cells usually do. The virus used is incapable of replication so it only has the cell entry features, not the viral propagation features.

Depositing a piece of DNA into the nucleus doesn't seem to me to be the same as changing the organism's DNA. If the cell divides, will the daughter cells each have their own copy of the DNA? It doesn't sound like it to me.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to produce a personalized anti-cancer RNA vaccine, you need to a) do a biopsy of the tumor and some healthy tissue, which is fairly cheap, b) do genetic analysis of those samples to find the differences. This used to be prohibitively expensive, but now is fairly cheap too, the price went down six (!) orders of magnitude since 2000, c) ask specialized software to find the optimal protein set to express. This…

If a parent and child develop the same cancer, is it any more likely that the same (mRNA) drug will work for both of them? Or do cancer cells mutate so much that they're unrecognizable between patients? It would have interesting implications if in the future a family could invest in a bank of mrna molecules for their future generations. A new form of wealth.

I guess you should still perform steps (a), (b), and possibly (d) unless they develop it at the same time.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#369
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just multiply the cost for 1 person by the number of people in the population. If it's mass produced it will be a lot cheaper. e.g. if you want to pay a chemist to synthesise Aspirin in a lab for you it will be very expensive. But it costs pennies in the store.

That's only true if you can use the same aspirin as many other people. If the specific substance needs to be adjusted to your specific tumor, it may remain extremely expensive for a long time - until it becomes a technician's job to find your specific cancer signature and synthesize the drug from it.

In this case "aspirin" is the equipment/software/education needed to perform this treatment; not the mRNA itself.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#370
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus the fact that they want us to let them hack our DNA. It's a bit like giving them root to the OS of my being.

No, mRNA is not DNA.

Not that I agree with the parent but isn't technically mRNA used to "hack" DNA to make it synthesize a specific protein?
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