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I Violated a Code of Conduct

fast.ai

361–370 of 971 posts

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#361

It was clearly a mistake for him to even play along, especially if he was emotionally exhausted already. The best you can do when people are being stupid like this is ignore them. They hold no power over you unless you let them. This whole CoC thing is sadly fraught with virtue signaling psycho-sadists who enjoy playing tribunal. The people who actually cared about fostering inclusive human communities got bullied ou…

>This whole CoC thing is sadly fraught with virtue signaling psycho-sadists who enjoy playing tribunal.

Reminds me of this snippet from Nietzsche's essay, The Tarantulas:

In all their lamentations soundeth vengeance, in all their eulogies is maleficence; and being judge seemeth to them bliss.

But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#362

Ironically many people here seem to be jumping to conclusions after reading only his side of the story, something which he (rightly) reproaches to NumFOCUS in the very article. Disclaimer: I watched some of the talk and I do think Jeremy Howard appears largely accurate and right, and I empathise with his feelings. But I wouldn't get to a definitive conclusion until NumFOCUS has had a chance to present their side.

I didn't watch the talk. For one, he seems to have recreated the talk because he didn't have the original video. Two, I already like and use notebooks. Three, I can't imagine what he could've possibly said about Joel that would make me change my mind.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#364
So, imagine if in the science world, if you challenge some theory with new findings or thinking (for example Einstein challenging Newtons gravity) and that obviously making "some people uncomfortable", would exclude you from the scientific community. So much progress would be made! /s

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it's not what's being said but how it's being said. This is the kind of rhetoric I'm referring to when I say Kafkaesque. These people derive power from being victims so if they are given this benefit of the doubt you are granting them where the onus is on some person to walk on eggshells lest that person upset the perpetually upset these perpetual victims will of course announce they are upset and victimized…

You know it's possible for us to just disagree about things, right?

"Agreeing to disagree" is the easy way out of an argumentation. I think the parent is right in that having to worry so much about how others see things is unproductive and toxic. There's such a diversity of sensitivities, having to cater to all of them is a fool's errand.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#366
Reminder to not entertain a "code of conduct" in your own projects or where you donate your precious time. Read about the person who created this insidious document. It's not about protecting anyone, it's about compliance and controlling your own thoughts.

Be excellent to each other, don't police each other.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#367
post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

One conference is unhappy with a speaker.

That has NEVER happened before and is clearly a tragedy of epic proportions.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#368

It was clearly a mistake for him to even play along, especially if he was emotionally exhausted already. The best you can do when people are being stupid like this is ignore them. They hold no power over you unless you let them. This whole CoC thing is sadly fraught with virtue signaling psycho-sadists who enjoy playing tribunal. The people who actually cared about fostering inclusive human communities got bullied ou…

> This whole CoC thing is sadly fraught with virtue signaling psycho-sadists who enjoy playing tribunal. > > The people who actually cared about fostering inclusive human communities got bullied out of positions of power long ago, so that aforementioned people could run their own little Stasi

It sounds like you include yourself in this group of people who care about building inclusive human communities?

Generalizing to whole groups of people who support an amorphous thing, calling them "psycho-sadists", and saying they want to "run their own little Stasi" is...not exactly how I would foster an inclusive human community.

Like, it sounds like you very much do not want "those people" in your community.

Just saying.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#369
post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

> Somebody needs to hide Linus. IIRC Linus had a public mea culpa and took some time off to reflect on his communication style.

He was then back quite quickly, after their own CoC fiasco.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#370
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it should be a red flag that the organisers have not thought seriously about their dispute resolution process. while that's very evident in this case this is actually what CoCs or written rules in general are for. Of course when you don't have a committee or a CoC however is in charge can still treat people arbitrarily, in fact much more so than when you actually have agreed on conduct and have a process to resolve…

> while that's very evident in this case this is actually what CoCs or written rules in general are for. Of course when you don't have a committee or a CoC however is in charge can still treat people arbitrarily, in fact much more so than when you actually have agreed on conduct and have a process to resolve things. > There's a good piece called the Tyranny of Structurelessness about radical feminist movements, where…

There's a good piece called the Tyranny of Structurelessness about radical feminist movements

That's from 1970: "The basic problems didn't appear until individual rap groups exhausted the virtues of consciousness-raising and decided they wanted to do something more specific. At this point they usually foundered because most groups were unwilling to change their structure when they changed their tasks."

That's not just a problem with feminist groups. It's made other protest groups ineffective. Most notably, Occupy Wall Street. They got national attention, but then had no process for deciding what they wanted and pushing for it. The Portland protestors ran into that, too.

"Rules for Radicals", by Saul Alinsky: RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”

Black Lives Matter is hitting this now. This is the agenda of Black Lives Matter.[1] "Page Not Found". The "Toolkit for Social Media", though, is available. The result has been way too much focus on PR, statues, and renaming stuff. Not enough about how to stop cops from killing people. (There's a straightforward solution: have the FBI investigate all killings by cops, immediately. There are about 1000 a year. The FBI has the authority to do this under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but does so only about once a year. They usually wait until the local authorities haven't done much, and by then the case is cold. Requiring an investigation by an outside agency is a basic first step. This doesn't require new legislation; that battle was won over half a century ago. So that's something to push for.)

What goes wrong when your group doesn't focus is that eventually you either fail, or end up with a Strong Leader, which creates the usual problems. These are the usual failure modes of revolutions.

[1] https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe

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