Earlier quoted context omitted.
They legally can't change that unless the law changes.
I value technical impossibility much higher than legal prohibition.
Then disconnect the modem or cut the antenna.
Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
361–370 of 455 posts
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#362Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…
Inattentive ADHD doeant work the way you think it does.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
Per history: Tesla releases driver data whenever it suits them. See: every autopilot crash.
If you don't opt in, they shouldn't have the data to release. At least until they swap it to an opt out quietly.
~85% of cars have EDR (event data recorders) which are always recording locally.
NHTSA requires cars with EDRs to record 15 specific attributes. They’ve also considered making EDRs mandatory, but basically didn’t bother since the vast majority of cars already have them.
You need an EDR to implement ADAS features, and some of those are becoming mandatory.
The only thing opt-in is remote data sharing.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by snitch? I think it's a perfectly valid reason to "snitch" if the driver was truly at fault. There's some great reasons for driver-facing cameras- and if one of those trade-offs is that drivers are less likely to "get away" with causing a crash, then that's fine in my books. Bias feels like a different argument entirely, though I do share your concern about it...
>What do you mean by snitch? I think it's a perfectly valid reason to "snitch" if the driver was truly at fault. The driver is always truly at fault in the current legal environment. A driver can't just blame it on the car to escape liability. The comments here talking about the legal ramifications for these tags are misguided. For these tags to matter, there would need to be legislative changes to shift the liabilit…
> The driver is always truly at fault in the current legal environment.
That's...not entirely and exclusively true.
> A driver can't just blame it on the car to escape liability.
If it was provably due to a manufacturing defect that the driver could not reasonably have known about, I think you are wrong.
If a manufacturing defect is involved, then whether or not the driver is also liable, the manufacturer and every party in the chain of commerce (both upstream—such as suppliers of the defective component—and downstream from the vehicle manufacturer, such as dealers, etc., which are mostly irrelevant for Tesla) is liable.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#365Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…
What do you mean by snitch? I think it's a perfectly valid reason to "snitch" if the driver was truly at fault. There's some great reasons for driver-facing cameras- and if one of those trade-offs is that drivers are less likely to "get away" with causing a crash, then that's fine in my books. Bias feels like a different argument entirely, though I do share your concern about it...
If the data could be used against you, you should also have access to the data so it could be used to support your case.
When there is asymmetric access to data, it's inherently unfair because the side with greater access will cherry-pick the data that supports their side.
For example, there might be some angle, some time window, some sensor, etc. that makes you look attentive, while a different angle/time/sensor might make you look inattentive.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What do you mean by snitch? I think it's a perfectly valid reason to "snitch" if the driver was truly at fault. The driver is always truly at fault in the current legal environment. A driver can't just blame it on the car to escape liability. The comments here talking about the legal ramifications for these tags are misguided. For these tags to matter, there would need to be legislative changes to shift the liabilit…
> The driver is always truly at fault in the current legal environment. That's...not entirely and exclusively true. > A driver can't just blame it on the car to escape liability. If it was provably due to a manufacturing defect that the driver could not reasonably have known about, I think you are wrong. If a manufacturing defect is involved, then whether or not the driver is also liable, the manufacturer and every p…
You are right about the exception of a defective product. I should have included that disclaimer in my original comment. However defective is an important qualifier. Autopilot is not designed to be the primary driver of the car. A Tesla on Autopilot rear-ending another driver is no more defective than any other car on cruise control rear-ending someone. Autopilot would likely need to overrule human action to be considered defective. I was assuming that is an unlikely enough case to avoid mentioning it. Even if that did occur, that would be evident in other logs the car keeps so this attention monitor wouldn't be relevant.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#367Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…
PASSENGER_UNDER_DRIVER is making me think a lot harder than I expected to.
Is that because you're a virgin?
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Would you destroy $10 billion of value/resources in the economy to save 1 person? You can spin any arguments by framing them in such ridiculous scenarios. My comment is obviously in the context of people able to pay money to get rid of their personal responsibilities.
I was just demonstrating the absurdity of your comment. Taking things to the limit to demonstrate the absurdity of absolutist statements like the one you made is a perfectly acceptable thing to do and is not "spin". You said "no amount of money" and I took that at face value. If that's not what you meant then that's fine, there's no disagreement between us. From reading the many other replies to your comment, everyon…
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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#369Why's the tool driving the car wearing a mask as the sole occupant of the car? Is that the new political correctness?
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#370Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…
Good. Driving is dangerous enough. We should get bad drivers of the road.
You are a bad driver. so am I.
humans are bad drivers.