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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

361–370 of 456 posts

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#361
post #10

Han supremacy has all the markings of other supremacist movements and will unfortunately need to be confronted. Not sure when the world will work up the courage to do so, though.

>Han supremacy has all the markings of other supremacist movements and will unfortunately need to be confronted. Are you willing to sacrifice your life for the freedom of Tibet? I am not

That's what the US said in WWI and WWII. It then had to sacrifice a bigger number of people. A supremacist globalist empire will not stop at its neighbors. Its plan is to invade the whole world.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#362
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now reject colonialism Nah, we just changed how it's done.

maybe we do something else bad now, but we no longer do the particular thing known as colonialism

Are Guam and Puerto Rico not de facto colonies?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#363
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, immigration laws are clearly moral... This is not, in fact, universally agreed upon.

It's a question of civics - entering the country is illegal, migrants do that knowingly. FYI they can leave anytime they want, there is a 72 hour clearing process. They are detained due to a transgression of the law, much like anything else. Where we can disagree mostly is the nature of the incarceration etc. - but this is besides the point - China's detention of citizens, arbitrarily, due to their ethnicity or becau…

> It's a question of civics - entering the country is illegal, migrants do that knowingly.

So was rescuing Jews from the Holocaust, and China's acts against Tibetans and Uighurs. Let's not mistake what's moral with what's legal; they often overlap in a decent society, but that's by no means guaranteed. You can make a case for "immigration laws are moral", but "they're moral because they're the law" isn't that case.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as I said above, and as the link I gave said, the pay is insultingly, embarrassingly low. And yet work release programs remain highly popular among US inmates. It allows inmates -- even violent felons in some cases -- to do meaningful work outside the prison, gain credit for their debt to society, and gain work experience they can use later. Yes the pay is way too low, and yes these voluntary programs are often…

It is reasonable to point out that the US currently has prisons with arguably poor conditions. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50114468 This is an argument over the term ‘concentration camp’ in effect. Do we concentrate the most ‘criminals’ into ‘camps’ where they can ‘work’ and ‘play’? Arguably yes. All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison system enough to not change it. It has gotten s…

Perfect, you've moved the goalposts so that all prison systems across the world count as "concentration camps". Now you can use your fallacy to defend China's worst human rights abuses from any and all criticism, because you can claim that anyone's judgement is tainted by the mere existence of their own country's "concentration camp" prison system.

> All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison system enough to not change it.

There have been literally hundreds of criminal justice reforms enacted in recent years, in all fifty states and at the federal level, covering all aspects of the American criminal justice system; drug laws, courts, bail, and yes prison reform. Guess which country the author of The New Jim Crow is from? I'll give you a hint if you need it. Criminal justice reform is a one of the most bitterly fought issues in American politics, and in case you haven't noticed, the fights are recently getting more serious.

It's clear to me that, regarding this particular topic, you have no idea what you're talking about.

> It has gotten so large that it removes a leg to stand on when criticizing other countries for imprisoning people.

Whose "leg" are you talking about? Mine? Michelle Alexander's? It may surprise you to learn that the US is home to over two hundred million adults, who do not all think alike or speak with the same voice. It may also surprise you that many American who are passionate about prison reform here at home are also passionately opposed to China's ongoing ethnic cleansing. I can confidently predict that those people will continue to speak out against China regardless of mensetmanusman's disapproval.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#365
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, immigration laws are clearly moral... This is not, in fact, universally agreed upon.

It's a question of civics - entering the country is illegal, migrants do that knowingly. FYI they can leave anytime they want, there is a 72 hour clearing process. They are detained due to a transgression of the law, much like anything else. Where we can disagree mostly is the nature of the incarceration etc. - but this is besides the point - China's detention of citizens, arbitrarily, due to their ethnicity or becau…

You're not addressing the point about immigration laws not being universally recognized as moral and just.

What about child migrants? You're meaning to tell me that its morally just to intern preteens because they broke your immigration law? To force children to appear before a judge that are so young that they have to draw a cross as their signature? What's grosser here?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#366
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If US rejects colonialism, why doesn't Puerto Rico have voting representation in the federal government?

To be fair, if Puerto Rico wanted it's independence, the current administration would probably give it to them. Likewise, had they wanted to become the 51st state, I have no doubt that in 2009 President Obama and the Democratic super majority would have been happy to make that happen and grab up two extra Senate seats in the process. The fact is, a lot Puerto Ricans like the current setup. The are natural born citize…

> The fact is, a lot Puerto Ricans like the current setup. The are natural born citizens who have full freedom of movement within the U.S. while Puerto Rico has fewer federal restrictions and obligations compared to a U.S. state.

I think you have it reversed: Puerto Rico suffers from all of the federal obligations and has no states' rights to make up for it. No representative, no voting senator (and therefore no 'pork'). The burden of the federal restrictions were bared in the aftermath of the hurricane: the Jones Act meant relief could only be transported by American ships even as other countries stood ready to help.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#367
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the nine dash line is comical, you're going to LOVE the British drawn India-Pakistani border with the most important Sikh holy site in muslim majority Pakistan! After you have a chuckle at that, you can ask the native americans how much fun they had with map drawing lunatics during the colonization of the Americas.

> the British drawn India-Pakistani border with the most important Sikh holy site in muslim majority Pakistan As far as I understand for that at least, the divisions/districts were divided based on religion, because that's what the demand of the leaders who wanted Pakistan was. So Pakistan got every Muslim majority district on the west of the current Indian state. Is it possible the Sikh holy site you are talking abo…

Throwing rocks from a glass house. Not sure how these claims can be made while the Native Americans languish in poverty and alcoholism.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#368
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain to me how its projection. Modern China's problem is the abundance of uneducated people. The racism mostly stemmed from ignorance. Same exact reason that when I visited Ecuador people pointed and stared. The wiki article doesn't even state that 'Han chauvinism' was 'bad'. It doesn't list a single incident of 'Han chauvisnism'. Do you know what the little red book is? You took the first result from googl…

> Do you know what the little red book is? Yes, I do, in fact... http://www.mzdbl.cn/maoxuan/maoxuan5-e/mswv5_25.htm

Wow! Did you google that all by yourself! Impressive! A+!

You're about 0.5% of the way there to being qualified enough to lecture somebody about their own country!

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is reasonable to point out that the US currently has prisons with arguably poor conditions. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50114468 This is an argument over the term ‘concentration camp’ in effect. Do we concentrate the most ‘criminals’ into ‘camps’ where they can ‘work’ and ‘play’? Arguably yes. All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison system enough to not change it. It has gotten s…

Perfect, you've moved the goalposts so that all prison systems across the world count as "concentration camps". Now you can use your fallacy to defend China's worst human rights abuses from any and all criticism, because you can claim that anyone's judgement is tainted by the mere existence of their own country's "concentration camp" prison system. > All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison syste…

Prison reform has been talked about for decades, there has supposedly been progress, but it hasn’t looked too promising in the data:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_...

I think we both agree that the US would have better standing on this issue if we didn’t have the highest per capita imprisonment.

China would almost have to 10x their imprisonment rates to overtake us...

Sorry to make you angry about this.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#370
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. I don't understand this take. Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America?

> Why does LeBron James have to address human rights in China before he, a Black American, can address human rights abuses against Black Americans in America? Because as bad as the human rights abuses against Black Americans in America are, they pale in comparison to what China is doing. But that's not the only issue. The bigger issue is that LeBron James chooses to make hundreds of millions of dollars by staying sil…

'Pale in comparison' is kind of icky sounding...
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