Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 456 posts

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#311

Post by NotSammyHagar »

crocodiletears wrote: post #270
foepys wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appeasement didn't work back in the 1930s and won't work now. Let China take Taiwan and they'll probably look at Vietnam or even South Korea or Japan.

It's not appeasement. It's just not worth it. Wasting American blood in a region built up to be defensible specifically against the Americans to save a government that mostly only exists out of spite seems like a poor investment. The kind of withdrawal I described would likely be accompanied by the expulsion of all non-immigrant Chinese nationals, a military build-up in friendly regional territories, and deployments…

What govt do you mean exists only out of spite? You can't mean Taiwan. It's a real country. They are a democracy.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#312

Post by dang »

jtdev wrote: post #240
jtdev wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, China can’t seem to stop at simply owning the land, they want to wipe these regions and people of their culture and heritage.

Why the downvotes? Is the CCP lurking here too?

This comment breaks more than one of the HN guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#313

Post by NotSammyHagar »

platinumrad wrote: post #275
foepys wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appeasement didn't work back in the 1930s and won't work now. Let China take Taiwan and they'll probably look at Vietnam or even South Korea or Japan.

This is delusional Cold War "domino effect" thinking but somehow even stupider because there was at least some credibility to the idea that communism would be a popular enough ideology to be adopted in such a fashion. Please tell me why China would ever have any interest in invading and occupying any of those countries.

China wants to control everything that could affect them. Eventually they will fight to take over Taiwan. They will use economic power to force Australia to do what they want also.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#314

Post by mensetmanusman »

nate_meurer wrote: post #269
mensetmanusman wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested, hourly pay for prisoners in the US can legally be as low as $0.04. Three orders of magnitude away from citizen wages, i.e. a citizen working 3 days ~= 10 years prison labor. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/

Yes, as I said above, and as the link I gave said, the pay is insultingly, embarrassingly low. And yet work release programs remain highly popular among US inmates. It allows inmates -- even violent felons in some cases -- to do meaningful work outside the prison, gain credit for their debt to society, and gain work experience they can use later. Yes the pay is way too low, and yes these voluntary programs are often…

It is reasonable to point out that the US currently has prisons with arguably poor conditions. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50114468

This is an argument over the term ‘concentration camp’ in effect.

Do we concentrate the most ‘criminals’ into ‘camps’ where they can ‘work’ and ‘play’? Arguably yes.

All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison system enough to not change it. It has gotten so large that it removes a leg to stand on when criticizing other countries for imprisoning people.

Edit: Professors call these places gulag’s: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49323320

So maybe it would be a better term to describe what the Chinese are doing, since they clearly aren’t filling trains with bodies to be sent to the incinerator. (which is what the term concentration camp brings to mind in the west).

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#315

Post by notaround1111 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #119
logicallee wrote: post #22

I think the million+ uighers in concentration camps are a precise analogy for death camps run by you know who in the 20th century. The u.s. should tell China, hey you hid your concentration camps really well, we totally just found out like today, but the thing is we can't let this go on so you have to free all your concentration camps in 18 months or we come invade. Sorrrry. We totally didnt know you were doing this.…

> The u.s. should tell China, hey you hid your concentration camps really well, we totally just found out like today, but the thing is we can't let this go on so you have to free all your concentration camps in 18 months or we come invade. The US isn't going to invade China; I mean, it fought North Korea to a draw and could stomach Vietnam, and you think it's going to make a credible threat to invade China over inter…

Korea ended in a draw b/c the soviet union was entering the conflict in support of mostly defeated NK/PRC forces and the fear was it could escalate into a nuclear war.

Vietnam is more interesting but I think it's very unlikely that a conflict with the PLA today would unfold in the same way.

Figuring out what type of conflict would force China into a nuclear exchange is probably the only question worth asking. would liberating Tibet and Xinjiang do that? Probably, but it also could be the case that Beijing wouldn't risk being vaporized themselves for a people and place they deem so inferior.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#316

Post by warninglights »

beatle_sauce wrote: post #57
Aperocky wrote: post #6

Welp, Adrian Zenz strikes again. If you haven't heard of this guy, he's a fellow at 'Victim of Communism Foundation Memorial', set up and paid by US. Anecdotally, private businesses in China very much dislike taking in labor transfers (more or less a gov initiative) - because they had to provide housing, specific food (halal, etc), and even religious facilities while paying the same. The labor quality is not nearly a…

Please take information with a grain of salt that tries to discredit the researcher, without even mentioning the actual argument. You might not agree with his world view, but Zenz found hard evidence of repression in Xinjiang and uncovered a Chinese government financed program for forced sterilization. If you are Chinese, be aware that any state-control model that works in Tibet or Xinjiang might also be transferred…

Zenz extrapolated based on Food Subsidies. There are NO FACTS on number or what is done there. Go look at Grayzone on the coverage on Zenz. What motivation would they have to make China look better.

I could claim people are learning mandarin there.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#317

Post by PedroBatista »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

I hope they have the tenacity to survive and resist and NEVER get conformed to live as part of China.

"China" is a vicious inhumane enemy, nobody in this World is innocent but there are some more innocent that others and the rhetoric of others being "bad" is no excuse for anything.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#318

Post by dinht »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

Language and customs are valued differently between Europe and East Asia, and one of the reason is poverty. I'll take Vietnam as an example as I grew there and now live in Europe.

We (the majority ethnics) do appreciate the cultures from minor ethics In fact, the minor ethnics regions have been a popular destination for young generation to get away from the urban life.

On the other hands, we cannot have a blind eyes on the taboos that comes from isolation, illiteracy and poverty. We're talking about little women rights, child labor, child marriage.

I'm not saying the same problems are in Tibet, but it wouldn't surprise if there other things going than what you're seeing from an outsider/tourist eyes, because the context is the same: high illiteracy rate and isolation.

Education is one way out. China is clearly having a strong take on this approach, but let's hope they do know how to preserve the culture as well.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#319

Post by Balgair »

reaperducer wrote: post #211
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. I happily pay more for things not made in China, when I can. When I can buy an iPhone that's not made in China, I'll buy it. Even if it means a downgrade. Several of my family members buy as many vintage and second-hand goods as they can. Not to be hipsters (are hipsters still a thing anymore?), but because they do not want to support China.

AFAIK Samsung makes most of their phones in Vietnam. The batteries are mostly made in China though.

Still, it doesn't have to be 100% or 0% made in China. 5% is better than 95%. Shades of grey exist, and that is ok. But earnestly trying to do better is what matters.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#320

Post by literallycancer »

crocodiletears wrote: post #203
foepys wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear it already is too late. China was brave enough to take Hong Kong in one swift motion. The international response has been so weak that China is already eyeing Taiwan. Just yesterday they flew with 18 fighter jets and a bomber across the unofficial but mutually agreed border between Taiwan and China. This is unprecedented. If the situation doesn't deescalate quickly, we might see a war soon and if push comes to…

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

Isn't their only carrier retrofitted Russian tech?
Post reply on HN