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Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

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Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#361

Post by gruez »

puranjay wrote: post #340
ashtonkem wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death. This is the behavior I’d expect from a serial killer. Edit: they then distributed or showed this photo to the rest of the precinct. We know because a whistleblower notified the media. To my eye, this means that they expected the rest of the precinct to approve of this behavior, which is extrem…

> The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death What compels someone to do that?

take your pick of "us vs them", "thin blue line", or "own the libs"

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#362

Post by dang »

antioink wrote: post #331
cmurf wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unquestionably a lynching. But this is what this perverted culture tolerates. Rather than the public participating in the lynching directly, it has hired professional lynchers.

True, and I think there are lot of deniers of how the racist history of the US influences its racist present. The mindset that permits people to shrug off the killing of Elijah McClain, and assume he must have done something to deserve it, is the same that celebrated public lynchings.

Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Especially not the ideological flamewar style? We're trying for something other than scorched earth here.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#363

Post by tmp538394722 »

Natsu wrote: post #300
tmp538394722 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where in the world did you hear that Elijah McClain was having a drug overdose before the police showed up?! No one has said that. You are fabricating.

I said that's what ketamine is used for. I never said he was on drugs, as I do not know that. I only said that it's not normal to need a bunch of people to hold someone down.

> It's used as a treatment for drug overdoses ("excited delerium") which appears to be why it was used here.

Why does it “appear” that way?

Please edit your post rather than spreading misinformation.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#364

Post by non-entity »

timmytokyo wrote: post #351
puranjay wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death What compels someone to do that?

Nothing compels them. It is who they are. And they are not alone in being like this. The better question is, why are so many people in positions of authority like this?

I believe the positions naturally draws people who are bullies. Not that all of them are, but the power over, and respect from the general population is probably very attractive to people who get a kick out of being asshole. Also, while I can't confirm the prevalence, there's a ton of anecdotes you here about shady hiring practices. There's the now popular story about a department refusing to hire people who had too high an IQ, and a friend told me how a department in a large city was attempting to recruit his cousin, despite him being diagnosed bipolar.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#365

Post by kittiepryde »

tmp538394722 wrote: post #243
Natsu wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's used as a treatment for drug overdoses ("excited delerium") which appears to be why it was used here. Of course it's a catch-all term, there's no way to tell offhand just what street drugs someone is on. There has to be a reason it took half a dozen people to hold him down. Also, there's no mention in this article of police directing the paramedics to do anything. Can you point me to what gave you that idea?

Where in the world did you hear that Elijah McClain was having a drug overdose before the police showed up?! No one has said that. You are fabricating.

I did get this from Wikipedia, 'After McClain was restrained more officers arrived and audio of the conversation records them saying that McClain was "acting crazy", that he was "definitely on something", and that he had attacked them with "incredible, crazy strength" when they tried to restrain him.'

They did not use the words, 'he was on drugs', but there is a strong implication based on the audio that this is what the police were claiming.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#366

Post by igneo676 »

It's worth reading up on Ketamine and its use medically before coming to conclusions based on this article. Notably:

1. EMTs are generally under the oversight of a head doctor and aren't supposed to take actions outside of what they're directed to do there. Even if instructed by a LEO

2. Ketamine is a relatively safe drug used for a variety of purposes. While it may calm down someone experiencing stress, it can also stabilize patients en-route to the hospital

While this situation may be a miscarriage of justice,we needn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Source: https://youtu.be/Dj4eBa7z03U

Also, the source here is a professional EMT and worth checking out for more points and more information. Prep Medic is awesome :-)

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#367

Post by glitcher »

gwright wrote: post #277
newacct583 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don’t even know why they’re there... but they know that they need to indiscriminately dominate a young black man until he’s puking and crying and ultimately has a heart attack. And this, for the benefit of folks here who still want to treat these incidents as individual aberrations, is what BLM is about. Sure, police can be good or bad, sometimes make mistakes, etc... But POLICING , as it is practiced in this…

> I don't see how you "reform" a culture like that. You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in. I don't agree with everything but the ideas outlined here https://www.joincampaignzero.org are a good start. Some communities are in much worse situation than others and I think new leadership is urgently needed in many of these places (i.…

> You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in.

But aren't you making the same type of over-generalization as the comment you are replying to?

I think there are many within the BLM movement who are working towards thoughtful change at the local level within their respective communities. But just like any large organization, the most extreme viewpoints tend to get the most attention, and those within the organization with the loudest voices tend to be the ones who push for the more extreme agendas.

I think it's important to keep in mind that any large organization is made up of individual people who each have their own opinions, motivations and goals, and often times those may be in conflict with the broader messaging of the group.

Your last paragraph really lost me though. I get it that you are addressing the most extreme version of the original post, but for me personally that didn't seem very constructive and I didn't find the appeals to fear mongering very convincing either.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#368

Post by comfyinnernet »

fareesh wrote: post #225
Yc4win wrote: post #151

To use a powerful animal tranquilizer on a human being just to make some cops' job "easier" is about the most abhorrent, sickly thing I have heard in years. I don't want to read any more of this. To think of all the complications in a person's body from experiencing a drug that puts your conscience in a literally black hole (K-hole) is just sick. It's wrong.

Policemen do one of the toughest jobs in society, especially in places where crime is high. Society owes them a great debt for enforcing the law because there are some hard criminals out there who would run amok if a weak and ineffective police force were the norm. Armchair criticism of the police with zero consideration for their point of view is not helpful to anyone, most of all victims of crimes.

If the police are acting like Judge Dredd and murdering people then a weak and ineffective police force is exactly what you have.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#369

Post by rorykoehler »

non-entity wrote: post #364
timmytokyo wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing compels them. It is who they are. And they are not alone in being like this. The better question is, why are so many people in positions of authority like this?

I believe the positions naturally draws people who are bullies. Not that all of them are, but the power over, and respect from the general population is probably very attractive to people who get a kick out of being asshole. Also, while I can't confirm the prevalence, there's a ton of anecdotes you here about shady hiring practices. There's the now popular story about a department refusing to hire people who had too…

That is way beyond what I would consider bullying or asshole behaviour.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#370

Post by pvaldes »

axaxs wrote: post #3

Why are we injecting people during arrests, which by definition are not yet guilty people? Even if nobody had died, this is absurd.

Police forcing people to do drugs. People that can't refuse it. Is revolting and insane, and distroys any possibility of fair defense of course. What would be next, escopolamine by default in any declaration?
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