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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#361

Post by inopinatus »

lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

This misrepresents and skips over Apple’s great offence, which is why a bunch of others who don’t know the half of it are piping up with their comparisons to the PlayStation store etc.

The most egregious part of Apple’s rules, and the reason that online service providers have a special loathing, is that apps are disallowed from linking to, advertising, or even mentioning that it is possible to sign up/subscribe/buy/rent outside of the app.

This is why you won’t see MMOs like FFXIV through the App Store, and is why you can’t sign up for Netflix, or even follow a link to their sign-up, from within the app.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#362

Post by boogies »

wombatmobile wrote: post #324
simonh wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft already does exactly this on console. When will we see the Google Stadia game streaming app on the XBOX? Does Microsoft really not take a cut of VBucks bought on the Microsoft store? This is just three big corporations fighting over their respective slices of the pie, if you think any of this is being said or done for your benefit I’m sure Epic has a plentiful supply of really tasty Koolaid for you. But no…

> This is just three big corporations fighting over their respective slices of the pie Yes, this is how capitalism works. The companies can be started by virtuous, far-sighted dreamers, like Steve Wozniak, Larry Page and John Lennon, but then they get infused by money from venture capitalists and investors who just want ROI. Once they hire more than 5000 people, the edges of the company are not controlled by dreamers…

This is big corporations fighting over their respective slices of the pie, and this is beneficial to consumers. That is how capitalism works. Some (somewhat small to some) amount will go directly to consumers (vbucks discounts), some (most likely most) will go toward creating a better product (hiring more developers, artists, designers etc.) and a bit might go to each of those developers, artists, and designers (and/or improve their working conditions, hopefully reducing the number worked to their limits like eg. the Rockstar employees who created Red Dead Redemption 2, and other game devs who sleep at work). Unfortunately some will be wasted on lawyers, etc., but IMO that’s not much worse than it staying in the hoard of the world’s most valuable company, and worth the benefits to everyone else.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#363

Post by inopinatus »

simonh wrote: post #290
lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

Microsoft already does exactly this on console. When will we see the Google Stadia game streaming app on the XBOX? Does Microsoft really not take a cut of VBucks bought on the Microsoft store? This is just three big corporations fighting over their respective slices of the pie, if you think any of this is being said or done for your benefit I’m sure Epic has a plentiful supply of really tasty Koolaid for you. But no…

No, it isn’t the same. Far from it. Microsoft and Sony don’t prohibit linking to external signup & account management, which is why I can resubscribe my FFXIV account from a console.

Apple’s rules prevent vendors from linking to external service account setup/management. You cannot even mention the existence thereof, let alone link to it or advertise the options provided therein. Consumers are explicitly kept in the dark about any method other than payment through the App Store.

That’s the stunning uppercut. The size of Apple’s fee is merely a follow-up kick to the nads.

This is why service providers, from Hey.com to Netflix, have a special irritation for the App Store rules, and since this rule directly distorts markets by affecting consumer choice is why so many competition regulators have a file open about it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#364

Post by dividedbyzero »

paulnechifor wrote: post #263
rvz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse. Imagine if the World Wide Web was not open and you had to go through a closed WWW like AOL and websites were "under review" by the providers and would take a 30% cut of your revenues or clicks on your web app or subscription service and websites require going only through that provider. Thank goodness that wasn't the case.

Even worse. Imagine millions of people knowing this and still buying these inferior phones.

Android phones don't suffer from this as much, though weird rejections from the Play Store do happen not infrequently, if HN front page can be trusted, and getting non-technical people to be comfortable with sideloading must be a huge security liability. Getting updates for the lifetime of my device and especially security patches, finding a phone with a decent user experience not marred by badly implemented manufacturer shells, that's still really hard though. Those have been significant problems for me with my Android phones, much more significant than not being able to sideload. I'd say it's not so black and white, both platforms have grave problems, with no immediate fix in sight.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#365

Post by cromwellian »

pb7 wrote: post #303
cromwellian wrote: post #298

"iPhone/iPad is a console" A $1000+ device with a moniker "Pro" is not a console. If you're trying to sell me the concept that something is "Pro" to be used for work, and can even replace a laptop, don't try to tell me its equivalent to a games console.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/ps4-pro/ "Pro" means absolutely nothing. It is a marketing label. Also the price means nothing. What's $1,000 (iPad Pro) to you is $500 (PS4 Pro) to me.

So Apple isn't pitching the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, and is instead pitching it as a games console?

Funny, I seem to member the announcements, and Apple showing iPhone Pro's shooting movies, doing professional photography, video editing, etc.

This this a game console? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7krzWNOXrFY

Gimme a break. Rent-seeking behavior dressed up in a security credit.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#366

Post by dpkonofa »

WWLink wrote: post #86
dpkonofa wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little silly as an example because AOL was exactly like this back in the day and had curated channels. You could still access external sites if AOL was your ISP as well but anything inside of the AOL application was reviewed by AOL. Also, the web is not even a great analogy period since it wasn't created by a private company. Apple created their phones, their App Store, they maintain it, and they provide the…

Yeah but this is as if you bought an AOL computer that did nothing but AOL. And AOL had absolute authority on what you could do on your computer. I know, I know, people who bought iPhones knew what they were buying into.

No... that's not the same thing at all..?

It would be like you using AOL and only being able to view the channels that AOL offered (which is exactly what it was). Apple has no authority to tell you what you can do with your device once you've purchased it but you also don't have the authority or the right to demand that Apple service your device if you jailbreak it or mod it.

This is literally the exact same situation as Xbox and PS4. Xbox doesn't allow people to play PS4 games on an Xbox. Is that anti-competitive? Is that anti-consumer? Is that Xbox having absolute authority over what you can do on your Xbox? Get out of here with that nonsense.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#367

Post by 627467 »

Another battle front opening against Apple. Grabbing the popcorn to see who else joins in.

The fact is: mobile software as a market has plateaued and everyone in the ecosystem is looking around and seeing lots of profits being made by the 2 world largest digital brokers: apple and google, and very little options. It just makes economical sense to become letigious and look for other allies against the State of affairs.

I'm sure Epic also took into consideration that any blocking of their app on the store will have little inmediate impact on their bottom line (since they are already very popular and already installed by most who would want to install).

Those who already have the update can already start sending epic money without paying "apple tax".

Sure, epic won't be able to release updates until this situation is resolved but I don't think this has much short term impact on their business for reason states above.

Apple could resort to erasing apps from people's device but that would only help Epic (and EU, and Spotify and all those who are shouting "Monopoly" at Apple).

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#368

Post by dgrin91 »

js2 wrote: post #254
andreasley wrote: post #56

Epic Games has filed a lawsuit [1] and published a Fortnite-themed parody of Apple's "1984" [2] to get some publicity for it. [1] https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4

I like the parody, but it's not really equivalent. The original Apple parody was to convince consumers to switch from one platform (PC) to a different platform (Mac). Now, maybe you believe Apple, in the form of iOS, has become Big Brother. Fine, in that case, Epic should provide its own gaming platform. But Epic isn't trying to destroy Big Brother here. It still wants to run on Big Brother's platform. It just doesn'…

Epic stated that they want to create their own separate app store outside of apple, but are unable to because apple does not allow sideloading.

So no, Epic doesn't want to run on Big Brother's platform.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#369

Post by causality0 »

lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

I'm pretty sure that's the fantasy every UWP and Microsoft Store executive jerks off to.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#370

Post by neop1x »

mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

People should be able to install alternatives. Microsoft was forced some time ago to give people alternatives to built-in apps so why Apple shouldn't. I would also like to see VP9 supported on iOS and alternative web engines in addition to WebKit/Safari!
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