Live data from Hacker News

Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

blog.mozilla.org

361–370 of 480 posts

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market is the best algorithm for hill-climbing a society into feudalism, one A/B test at a time.

Can you expand on this? I'm curious what you mean.

This topic really deserves an essay, but I'll try to give a few of the seed crystals for my thoughts:

- There's no real mechanism in the free market for long-term goal setting, apart from massive capital or collective action. Collective action is pretty hard to organize without capital.

- People have vices and virtues. Long-term thinking tends to lead to better outcomes. Long-term thinking tends toward virtues. Short-term instinct tends toward vices. See e.g. the marshmallow experiment.

- A/B tests and the concept of "revealed preference" optimize for vice without regard to long-term good. If you ask a smoker if they want to quit, they'll often say yes. But their "revealed preference" shows that they want to keep smoking. So "revealed preference" optimizes for vice.

- There's a feedback cycle between the most effective micro-optimizers and the accumulation of capital. So those who have the most money, can afford the most micro-optimizations. And those micro-optimizations favor the holders of the capital at the expense of society at large. Thus we are gradually optimizing ourselves into the will and control of the wealthy, AKA feudalism.

We can see this playing out in operating systems, too. Windows, despite MS's antitrust sins, and much as the Slashdot crowd loved to hate it, used to be very focused on compatibility and widespread use. There used to be a saying, "80% of your users only use 20% of your features, but they all use a different 20%". Now everything's gone from focus groups to telemetry. In other words, from planning and virtue, to reactionism and "revealed preference". Anything not used by 100% of users, or anything that doesn't favor the holders of the keys, is at risk of being destroyed in the next automatic update.

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the publishers? I honestly don't see how they would. As far as I know, they are blind on all transactions and none of their channels that publishers can use to register to receive BAT have any kind of declared ToS. In any case, it seems like you are just looking for a way to rationalize your current behavior. I only mentioned Brave because it is the first strong offering for an alternative to the ad-based economy.…

> In any case, it seems like you are just looking for a way to rationalize your current behavior. Not in the least. I find ads annoying and I don‘t have any skin in the game when it comes to advertising. But it‘s not a matter of simply trying Brave. I want to understand how it works for users and also for publishers. And I want to understand how it is not a proprietary system with a gatekeeper role as a structural fe…

Their advertisement network is only one and the browser gives them some leverage, but there is nothing stopping someone else to create a similar alternative. Brave already has been forked (Dissenter Browser) that remove the BAT side of things. Outside of the potential mooning of the token which would make them rich, I don't really see anything they have that gives them such a dangerous moat.

Hell, a competitor could even decide to have an advertisement network that also operates with the BAT supply that has been taken out of the exchanges. If for some reason the company starts doing anything user-hostile, they will lose the business to someone else.

The only important thing is that anything is better than the status quo. If you are weary of Brave, you can go for something like flattr, or you can start looking into crypto as a way to pay directly for those you want to support (and still keep your privacy). Whatever you decide, just please realize that "I don't like ads, but I don't see any good alternative" is not a valid statement anymore.

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#363
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly suspect Panopticlick to be broke to the point of being utterly useless.

Why's that?

I mean, if you go to it it will invariably tag you as being unique, which might be true, but if you look at how it breaks those down it really makes no sense at all. Browse it on an iOS device, for example: the one in x browsers have this is just way off, because every iOS device will have the exact same data for many those metrics so it doesn't make sense–for example, there is no way on in 20 browsers show the same list of fonts as a stock iOS device.

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#364

I'm happy to see stuff like this. I'd be even happier if the tricks to get video to play were somehow canceled. I have adblocker and video blockers, but somehow, news sites have a video that plays. If I scroll off the page, the video pops out into the lower right hand of the page and resumes playing, even if the big version of the video at the top of the page was stopped /paused (which it is by default), and it needs…

The much bigger problem for me is I can't really go to any news site without the full page being hijacked blocking the content until I turn off my adblocker.

I feel like adblockers are becoming less and less useful overall, even as they become more widespread and more advanced, because I have to turn them off to see anything on the internet.

Am I the only one with that issue?

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While these addons may help against help prevent some fingerprinting attempts, they do not adequately reduce the fingerprint to be non-unique. They certainly won’t hurt, though (many websites just take a hash of the canvas). It’s very difficult to have a non-unique fingerprint. Your browser would have to be the exactly the same as a bunch of other people. At the moment (AFAIK), this is only possible with Tor (all Tor…

This is a handy site to get a feel for how unique you are: https://amiunique.org/fp Some other useful ones for seeing what you're leaking: https://www.bromite.org/detect https://www.doileak.com/ https://www.deviceinfo.me http://fp.virpo.sk/

I wish this was helpful, but amiunique.org calls out the values for canvas, fonts, etc. as unique when running the blockers. Maybe this is because it's randomizing every time, but it makes the amiunique test pretty flawed...

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems illegal in some places if true. The premise is that it proves we are not robots, and that's all.

By tracking you, they can remember that you are not a robot. As much as I dislike tracking, I don’t think having the captcha be always hard would be all that great either. Ideally I’d like to see fewer captchas. But there’s no good alternative to it really. I mean, requiring phone verification instead is an alternative. But I don’t necessarily want to hand out my phone number to each and every site on the net that I…

Its absolutely not true that there is no alternative to tracking for captcha "hardness".

https://privacypass.github.io/

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the free market working as intended - if most people cared, the first site to stop doing auto playing videos would get more traffic and other sites would follow. As of right now, the benefit of auto playing videos outweighs the cost of pissing off the few users who care.

The free market is the best algorithm for hill-climbing a society into feudalism, one A/B test at a time.

A thread about Firefox descended into a conversation about the free market. But is that really warranted? What I mean is, Firefox is an open source product, right? So isn't it just a matter of a feature to hijack the "the video turns into a little box" javascript function so it doesn't do that, or blocking it and detecting in some other way? I'm no web developer, but it seems like a feature or add-on should conquer it.

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the free market working as intended - if most people cared, the first site to stop doing auto playing videos would get more traffic and other sites would follow. As of right now, the benefit of auto playing videos outweighs the cost of pissing off the few users who care.

The free market is the best algorithm for hill-climbing a society into feudalism, one A/B test at a time.

Thank you for this, I love it!

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of January [1], it looks like Firefox enabled fingerprinting protection by default. Expert users may have overridden settings in various ways that could prevent those protections from being active. To verify, at Preferences > Privacy > Tracking Protection (about:preferences#privacy), make sure you've selected an option that includes Fingerprinting protection. [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/how-to-block-finge…

Note that I think this blocking is done not by detecting a site doing it, but instead by using block lists: Firefox has a list of sites where third-party resources, including JS that would do canvas fingerprinting, will be blocked. As I understand it, this is different from the various "resistFingerprinting" ("RFP") settings in about:config, which will work on every site (and are notorious for breaking things). Ditto…

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t enable resistFingerprinting for anyone I’m responsible for providing tech support to! If y’all want to experiment with it, go ahead, but be prepared to be angry at your browser and/or websites as things mysteriously break without explanation.

Re: Latest Firefox rolls out Enhanced Tracking Protection 2.0

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't use an ad blocker. I know all the arguments for ad blocking and I agree with many of them. I know what difference it makes in terms of performance and annoyance. But I just can't bring myself to indiscriminately block all ads, knowing how important they are as a funding source for the websites I use. There's only one thing that destroys privacy even more thoroughly than ad targeting: payment.

> There's only one thing that destroys privacy even more thoroughly than ad targeting: payment. Can you expand? Because I disagree. I would rather a company have my name, payment info, and email address than all those things plus other personally identifying information. I feel like a payment model decentralizes the issue and that I would not be tracked around the web. I don't need the WaPo to know the other sites I'…

Subscription based services can do everything that ad funded services can do, but on top of that they can irrefutably link my real name to all of it, which makes their data even more valuable.

I don't know many subscription based content publishers that promise not to monetise what they know about me in all sorts of other ways. I do have a newspaper subscription. That doesn't stop them from showing me ads or using ad networks and trackers. Payment networks and banks monetise my payment data as well.

Even if a particular publisher is willing make such promises, I wouldn't have much confidence in their ability to keep my data safe.

So the upshot is that I simply don't want my real name irrefutably and permanently linked to everything I read, write or watch.

What ad neworks know about me is extremly patchy. Every time I see what they think about me I wonder who on earth would ever consider paying them for that rubbish. But that's not what it's about. All they need to be able to do is make predictions that are slightly better than random guesses.

Post reply on HN