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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#361

Post by pathseeker »

Someone1234 wrote: post #31
chimeracoder wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day we will have one big union. The strength of labor unions in Europe is drawn in large part due to the fact that there are a multiplicity of unions representing workers for the same companies, and workers can choose who they want to represent them. That's not the case for labor unions in the US.

That's not the case because the US Government and industry has spent the last 150 years crushing unions and weakening them. Anti-union propaganda is rampant. It could be the case in the US. Having a single union is a good place to start.

>That's not the case because the US Government and industry has spent the last 150 years crushing unions and weakening them.

No, it's actually because the government gave them more power and allowed agreements to be structured where all of the electricians in one company must come from the same union.

Unions in the US are able to prevent competition from other unions. You can not freely choose different unions if you don't like the one in your company. See every state that doesn't allow "right to work". Unions become mandatory.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#362

Post by [deleted] »

nerdponx wrote: post #276
celdon25 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The “go work somewhere else” solution isn’t an equitable or realistic solution for many employees. That often equates to “I can go work somewhere else that’s just as shitty.” Bingo. I've worked at enough places to know that the greener grass myth is indeed a myth in the industry. That doesn't mean you can't get a better job, but there's always a very real risk that things will be worse at your new job.

This, plus in the USA you can't quit your current job without another one lined up, because your access to healthcare is dependent on employer-sponsored health insurance. Especially if you already made enough money for the year that you don't qualify for a program like Medicaid or state-sponsored subsidies.

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#363

Post by stephencanon »

pathseeker wrote: post #324
zipwitch wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that "union rules" or "the way the company had agreed to comply with their agreement with the union"? Because 'work to rule' can be a double-edged sword, and in my experience companies just love to blame their own chosen behavior on the union. "We have to fire you if you're late five times this quarter, because the union" really means "after we frequently and arbitrarily abused employees under the excuse of 'atte…

That's still "union rules". If the union chose to be pedantic and insisted upon these rules in negotiation, then it's really the union's fault.

No, it's "union and company rules". The nature of a negotiation is that both sides have agreed on the result. Getting people to accept calling this sort of bullshit "union rules" is propaganda.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#364

Post by newen »

dmix wrote: post #310
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible that some organizations have a high concentration of folks who have a particular viewpoint on unions, regardless of whether they're being treated poorly or not. For example, Vox's newsroom unionized, even though I would suppose that they are likely treated better than most journalists -- at least to the extent the business' economics allow. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with Kickstart…

I get the impression a lot of tech companies aren't doing it out of particular absolute need for such a strong a hammer, but because they can and it suits their ideology for legitimately bad stuff they see happening in other industries. It always made 100x more sense to me on some factory floor in the early 20th century than it does in a tech startup like environment in 2020, plus some labour jobs in between. I can j…

Reminds me of arguments against social benefits like welfare, Medicare for all, etc in the US. Sure it's effective in a lot of places but it's different in this particular case, people, so we don't need to do it.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#365

Post by Ididntdothis »

toasterlovin wrote: post #359
Ididntdothis wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that in well run ethical companies the relationship with unions would also be harmonious. That’s at least how it works in Germany with unions like IG Metall. Seems to me that problems mostly arise when management becomes unreasonable.

Or when the union leadership becomes unreasonable.

From what I have seen it’s mostly management that gets greedy first.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#366

Post by fennecfoxen »

spa3thyb wrote: post #278
calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

I'm with you on the theory, up until your last statements - the vote to unionize was 46 to 37; 55% in favor with no breakdown in the roles means we can't be sure the dissenting voice wasn't the development staff. It could be the support and community management roles (or any other 'soft skill' role which is less scalable and no less valuable but perceived as more easily replaced) carried the vote.

It is also worth noting that NY is not a right to work state. This means that the 37 people who voted against the union have no right to not-pay-dues to the union.

If the workers change their mind then, in theory, they will have the opportunity to vote to decertify the union, later in their employment (a minimum of 3 years). Approximately 0 unions a year are decertified this way in the US.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#367

Post by toasterlovin »

anarchodev wrote: post #297
metalliqaz wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (original) article only mentioned one grievance, that Kickstarter removed a "punch nazis" project and the employees revolted. Honestly it sounds like they had it pretty good.

[flagged]

Being against advocating violence against a group is not the same thing as agreeing with that group. This is basic logic.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#368

Post by Mirioron »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #338
calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

I would think that in well run ethical companies the relationship with unions would also be harmonious. That’s at least how it works in Germany with unions like IG Metall. Seems to me that problems mostly arise when management becomes unreasonable.

Unions can become corrupt too. After all, it's an additional organization and when money gets involved...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#369

Post by ryanmcbride »

jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

seems "lucrative + meritocratic" if you aren't in a marginalized group. Age/gender/pay discrimination is a serious problem in tech that unionization can help solve (it's not a magic bullet, but it's a step in the right direction)

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#370

Post by Krasnol »

celdon25 wrote: post #274
dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

> Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor Glassdoor's ratings are not terribly reliable. Here's something I wrote previously about my own experience with using it: ----- I left a poor review for an employer only one time in the 10 years or so I've been on Glassdoor (there were only a couple other reviews). And almost immediately after, there were about 20 or 30 5 star reviews posted in a short amount of time. The co…

Our HR department spammed with "go to glassdoor and rate us" mails and hinted at giving good ratings because this way we'd be able to get people.

At some point people really started to rate them. Ended up with a 3.2 rating.

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