Kickstarter employees vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#271

Post by erik998 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

bluedays wrote: post #236

Yeah this discussion appears to have been hijacked by thinly veiled anti-union astroturfing. I would be highly skeptical of all posts in this thread. Many of the posts literally using the exact phrases commonly repeated by anti-union propagandists. This makes me wonder if Silicon Valley is starting to see the writing on the wall and pay for disinformation campaigns in places where engineers regularly read and post. I…

I would not be surprised if there is some low level effort amongst some of the larger companies in silicon valley.... especially after the whole issue of not bidding up talent or stealing talent from each other...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#272

Post by aty268 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #263

aty268 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would it not be? If I don't like my job, I get another one. It's easier to do this as a software engineer than almost anything else.

Countless reasons why. Low job supply in your area and inability to move due to family and other responsibilities tying you down or too busy taking care of your kids to have time to interview and study leetcode or too little time spent on a gig getting you labeled as a job hopper or as a problematic employee by other companies if you don't have enough experience backing you up. I feel you have no idea how complex peo…

Then that was the employees fault. They took the risk of moving to the middle of nowhere, (which for Kickstarter happens to be New York?), and are getting paid a bit less than industry average because of it. Is that a call to unionize? Absolutely not.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#273

Post by B008L355 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

Where's my Coolest Cooler?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#274

Post by celdon25 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

> Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor

Glassdoor's ratings are not terribly reliable. Here's something I wrote previously about my own experience with using it:

-----

I left a poor review for an employer only one time in the 10 years or so I've been on Glassdoor (there were only a couple other reviews). And almost immediately after, there were about 20 or 30 5 star reviews posted in a short amount of time. The company only had about that many employees, which proves that the CEO (or someone at the top) either told everyone to write a good review, or some of them were fake, both clearly 'incentivized' by any sane definition of the term. I reported this to Glassdoor and they refused to do anything about it, and I even had the report escalated and re-reviewed, without any effect.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#275

Post by bsder » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

> From the mind of a top performer

Unfortunately, we also know that tech has a big age discrimination problem, for example. Unions are one of the tools to combat that.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#276

Post by nerdponx » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

celdon25 wrote: post #77

dangus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at their employee reviews. The management there seems toxic. I implore you to also think twice about the way in which you are demonizing unions. Sure, some unions aren’t the best, but what you’re saying is 100% discounting the benefits that a union can bring to employees. Union dues can more than pay for themselves in wage negotiation. They can restrict overwork, unpaid overtime (see the special salaried ov…

> The “go work somewhere else” solution isn’t an equitable or realistic solution for many employees. That often equates to “I can go work somewhere else that’s just as shitty.” Bingo. I've worked at enough places to know that the greener grass myth is indeed a myth in the industry. That doesn't mean you can't get a better job, but there's always a very real risk that things will be worse at your new job.

This, plus in the USA you can't quit your current job without another one lined up, because your access to healthcare is dependent on employer-sponsored health insurance. Especially if you already made enough money for the year that you don't qualify for a program like Medicaid or state-sponsored subsidies.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#277

Post by dmos62 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

davengh wrote: post #150

dmos62 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this phrase inspired many, but it's talking about an extreme. What if the disadvantaged are not having a "wretched existence"? Is immense inequality ok then? That's the big question.

Your definition of "wretched existence" might be very different from the folks seeking union representation.

That's my point. It's not a useful concept when explaining the situation.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#278

Post by spa3thyb » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

I'm with you on the theory, up until your last statements - the vote to unionize was 46 to 37; 55% in favor with no breakdown in the roles means we can't be sure the dissenting voice wasn't the development staff.

It could be the support and community management roles (or any other 'soft skill' role which is less scalable and no less valuable but perceived as more easily replaced) carried the vote.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#279

Post by jcims » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

Goronmon wrote: post #237

jcims wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely common pattern with union practices in the US. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22that%27s+not+your+job%22+...

The search results I'm seeing for that don't seem relevant to the discussion. Did you actually have any evidence to the "This is an extremely common pattern with union practices in the US." or were you just taking a shot in the dark here to support your own bias?

No evidence that you would (or should) be satisfied with, just direct personal experience as a member of the Teamsters (Local 284), years of indirect personal experience working in HVAC and building two homes (IBEW and Carpenters union) and many personal anecdotes from my brother (CWA) and wife (NEA).

My point is this. There are some common pathologies in the way unions tend to operate (or at least old unions that have ossified over time) in the US that have nothing to do with the underlying objectives of collective bargaining. This step for Kickstarter is a huge victory for organized labor in the USA and they are likely to receive aggressive input from other American labor unions as to how they should operate. In my opinion the employees at Kickstarter accept this input at their own peril. This shouldn't just be a new union, this should be a new type of union and one indicator of success would be strong objection to their charter from one or more existing unions in the US.

For the record I have no philosophical objection to unions or collective bargaining at all. I do have material concerns around how they tend to operate in the US.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#280

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

It's also possible that some organizations have a high concentration of folks who have a particular viewpoint on unions, regardless of whether they're being treated poorly or not. For example, Vox's newsroom unionized, even though I would suppose that they are likely treated better than most journalists -- at least to the extent the business' economics allow. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with Kickstarter, just that this strikes me as possible. I'm also not trying to imply any judgment for or against the move.