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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#361

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

tomaskafka wrote: post #208
mrtksn wrote: post #57

Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…

Two things: 1) There is no way Apple would be allowed to sell iPhones in China, without China government having access to anything. So, I assume that Apple users in China have e2e encrypted exactly nothing. 2) I have a strong suspicion that those 'enter your Apple ID password because your account needs it' message really means 'a government has requested your data and even though it's encrypted, we will nag you about…

You say vote responsibly but neither of the 2 parties will address this.

The libertarian party surely would but most people don't even know it exists, i would guess.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#362

Post by whycombagator »

jxdxbx wrote: post #313

A completely e2e encrypted backup system would have to include photos (current iPhone backups do not). But true encryption means that when customers forget their passwords, they lose their data. Already, people who don't use iCloud Photo Library and lose their phones, or forget their passwords, lose the photos that were on the phones. Anyway, I think the customer experience issues weigh pretty heavily here.

Sure. But they could easily make it opt-in, hidden in the settings, with a warning/confirmation/etc so users know exactly what they are getting into.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#363

Post by m4rtink »

saghm wrote: post #160
klodolph wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hard line is too facile. If you are paranoid about malicious code updates, then making part of your stack open-source doesn’t matter. I could push an update to your OS that reads the keys out of your BitWarden.

Of course, there are open source operating systems out there...

Yeah, try to do that on a mainstream Linux distro for example.

While I'm not saying maintainers & users are checking all changes in packages, all the work happens in the open & all the source is compiled on distro infrastructure.

So once you actually do an atack like this and it is discovered, you can be sure anything done by the maintainer will be combed with a very fine brush & the account disabled.

Given that it can take years to build the trust needed to become mainatiner of an important package, only to loose it all once you atack is known, I really can't see this used for anythin else than very targetted high stakes attack omce off attack, definitelly not for any long term dragnet surveilance.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#364

Post by post_below »

tomc1985 wrote: post #300
natch wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has bought into that meme I will admit this feels like a pretty huge betrayal by Apple. So, yes, I think if Apple sticks with this, their whole privacy stance is going in the toilet now. And a very dirty toilet it is. Beyond just the facts of not protecting data, there is also the deception. This is some really very, very, nasty stuff for Apple's brand and the reputation of every person who works at Ap…

Yeah, but what are the reasonable alternatives? Android, with its freewheeling stance on privacy and app permissions? Do they even let you disable location tracking any more?

Depending on what functionality you're willing to give up, an Android device can pretty easily be used as a more private option thanks to the latest iteration of Google's privacy settings.

If you're willing to root your device, you can have the best of both the functionality and privacy worlds.

That only applies to motivated and reasonably tech savvy users of course, out of the box iOS is still the better privacy option.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#365

Post by nicky0 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #281
djannzjkzxn wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this backup encrypted with? If I lose my phone, what do I need to restore it to a new phone?

Why do people care about phone backups anymore? I don't think I have any apps that don't store everything in the cloud. There's nothing of value that's only on my phone. I could toss it in the bin and set up a new one now and not lose anything.

Because if you turn on iCloud backup, Apple might give it to the FBI. (Which is the whole topic of this article...)

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#366

Post by ran3824692 »

modeless wrote: post #329
Shank wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offline attacks for a motivated adversary, like NSA, are trivial on low strength security measures, like a standard PIN, numeric only PIN, or pattern. Only a strong passphrase would really help you.

This is false. This concern is addressed in the second paragraph of the linked article: > this passcode-protected key material is encrypted to a Titan security chip on our datacenter floor. The Titan chip is configured to only release the backup decryption key when presented with a correct claim derived from the user's passcode. Because the Titan chip must authorize every access to the decryption key, it can permanen…

But the source code of many important parts of android are nonfree, so google can update it to send your cleartext password and you would never know.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#367

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

_bxg1 wrote: post #237
giancarlostoro wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, it's possible that because we have a smartphones duopoly, Apple only needs to maintain a position where people will say "well at least it's not as bad as Google". I'm upset about this personally, but I'm not ditching my iPhone. Of course, this does cement my decision to never pay for iCloud, for what that's worth (much less, but not nothing). Agreed, and I am likely going away from Android and in…

They botched the original Windows Phone through a failure of management. They botched subsequent pushes on it because the bootstrapping problem around apps had grown too deep. At this point, if they tried to give it another go, there would be trust issues: "Am I investing in a phone ecosystem that's going to be dead in a few years?" Not to mention how much they've gone all-in on Android development. A Surface-branded…

> A Surface-branded Android phone wouldn't be out of the question,

It could run chromium based Edge right away logically.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#368

Post by mosselman »

jayd16 wrote: post #253
GeekyBear wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux offers the ability to run virtual machines, does it not?

As in run an OSX vm so you can run a backup? You're only allowed to virtualize OSX on Apple hardware.

"You're only allowed to virtualize OSX on Apple hardware."

Haha, good one. Who cares?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#369

Post by mosselman »

magduf wrote: post #326
GeekyBear wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You you have always been able to back up your iDevice to a Windows instance, if that is what you prefer to use.

You want me to pay for a Windows license to run a Windows VM on Linux, all just so I can back up an iPhone? I don't have to do any of this crap with an Android phone.

True, but you do get wrung out for personal data in order to sell you ads. There is always that.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#370

Post by Miraste »

_bxg1 wrote: post #237
giancarlostoro wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, it's possible that because we have a smartphones duopoly, Apple only needs to maintain a position where people will say "well at least it's not as bad as Google". I'm upset about this personally, but I'm not ditching my iPhone. Of course, this does cement my decision to never pay for iCloud, for what that's worth (much less, but not nothing). Agreed, and I am likely going away from Android and in…

They botched the original Windows Phone through a failure of management. They botched subsequent pushes on it because the bootstrapping problem around apps had grown too deep. At this point, if they tried to give it another go, there would be trust issues: "Am I investing in a phone ecosystem that's going to be dead in a few years?" Not to mention how much they've gone all-in on Android development. A Surface-branded…

Microsoft already announced a Surface Android phone: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/10/microsofts-first-and...

It's supposed to come out later this year.

There's definitely a differentiator, at least. Apparently they've forgotten what happened to the many previous attempts at dual-screen phones and tablets.

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