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People love working remotely

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Re: People love working remotely

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a private office, but we also work from home two days a week (often more than that as various things come up for people). I come in to the office every day because my wife stays home with our 3 kids. Work from home when home is four people that want your attention doesn't work out very well. The few times I tried it, everyone just got frustrated that I was present but not available. Maybe in a couple years whe…

The difference for many people is more than a ten minute commute. I'd enjoy 20 minutes a day of quiet time, but in my situation it'd be an hour per day. The trick to making family understand when you're on the clock is training them to treat the closed office door as though it was locked. If you come out of the room, your attention is free game at that point, but once that door is closed, you're not home. Takes awhil…

That makes it hard to come out of your office to accomplish a specific task, like grabbing coffee or visiting the restroom. Then your attention's not free game, and you still have to sneak around.

Re: People love working remotely

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big boss said "a 15 minute fact-to-face is better than a multi-day email chain" I can't believe that people who are so out of touch with reality are still given so much responsibility at companies which they effectively unknowingly misuse to make everyone's life miserable. There's nothing wrong about a multi day email chain. Sometimes it's the best communication tool, because non-critical/important things can b…

A non-trivial number of very senior people simply cannot read or write. They can process information about other people very quickly in f2f interactions, but when things are written down they are at sea. Video is also significantly less useful for these people. I have seen it in dozens, maybe hundreds, of execs I have interacted with over the years, including people I have worked very closely with. Sometimes it is va…

As remote work increases (and capital starts flowing consistently to remote-oriented companies), I think we're going to see a shift in the personality types and skill sets of successful managers. Specifically, touchy-feely socializers are going to have a harder time because a) more documentation of previous communication makes backtracking more difficult and b) social manipulation is distinctly different when verbal vs text.

Re: People love working remotely

#363
post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

What's this about white noise over the speakers? To sort of drown out other people's talking?

Re: People love working remotely

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has basically been the story of every job I've had, except instead of being 100% remote I was wfh once or twice per week. I'd join a company under the condition that they allowed flexible hours and wfh. Then 6 months later managers would change and all of a sudden the way we'd been operating would no longer be acceptable. Always the person leading the charge towards eliminating wfh and remote work is some non-te…

I've never understood these sorts of posts - surely at that point you just leave? You've effectively been fired anyway? I mean, I've taken remote jobs for which I could well be living 200+ miles away. Saying 'come in to the office' - lol, sure, perhaps once a week or something for a catch up. What gives? If my boss suddenly decided to no longer employ me as a software developer and instead "pivoted" to making hand gr…

Well yea, that's why I eventually quit both jobs.

Re: People love working remotely

#365
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try working outside of your home, perhaps in a co-working space or coffee shop.

How anyone can do productive work developing software in a coffee shop, presumably on a laptop, is completely beyond me.

How anyone can do productive work developing software in an open office is beyond me

Re: People love working remotely

#366
post #128
post #16

I was full-time WFH for 6 wonderful years. I was happy, my productivity was off the charts, I was saving tons of money because I didn't have to spend it on my car and clothes, I had extra time that I wasn't wasting on my commute, etc. Then, we had a big shake-up. A bunch of senior people left, and new "leadership" came in to "transform" our workplace. All WFH was cancelled in our division (in spite of still being off…

I'm not sure about the 15 minute meetings that could have been emails, however, I will say that pair programming and XP are useful tools. I'm not sure how easy that is to replicate in a fully remote office.

I've never understood how people think pair programming is a good thing. Unless you're working with a junior and training them, it's ridiculous to have two people sharing a single keyboard and trying to code together.

Re: People love working remotely

#367
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 15 minute fact-to-face is better than a multi-day email chain What if it takes you 4 hours to come up with a good answer?

I've had plenty of face-to-face conversations with my boss demanding an answer to an immediately problem that basically ended with me saying, "I need to look into this," repeatedly until the conversation ended and I could actually work on it.

Ugh. I have to go through this all the time. Boss asks for estimates for things I haven't looked into. I tell him I don't know. He pesters me for a guess, which I refuse. Round and round we go...

Re: People love working remotely

#368
post #67

This piece has the feeling of being written by "every Friday is Hawaiian T-shirt day" after his employer went all remote and he needed a new task. I have worked remotely more than not and it's not ideal. I suspect that if teleportation machines existed, then remote work wouldn't be a thing. Once you leave the office for the day (or leave the house to go to the office) then the logistical problems start (where do I fi…

okmokmz said: > there are a ton of assumptions in this argument, and you seem to be projecting a lot of your personal beliefs and feeling as well I agree and I wanted to walk through the differences in my life (as I'm 80% remote): > If you don't have a dedicated quiet office area then it gets real difficult. I agree, but it's not hard to create this environment at home. Buy a house with one more bedroom than you need…

Thanks for taking the time for this reply.

I was partly just taking the part of Devil's Advocate to at least represent the cons of remote working amid all the sunshine and rainbows of this post and the replies.

A key element of my comment (maybe not well communicated) was that remote work also includes people who are struggling at the living wage mark. When you create a thread on HN, the assumption is that everyone is making significantly greater than the regional median household income. People who are struggling may be living in a location with a single bedroom or studio and can't afford anything bigger. They may be living in a home in which the spouse is abusive or doesn't respect the need for a quiet place to work. If you're in the position of "any emergency is going to drown me" then there's no easy recovery from equipment issues.

As I mentioned before, if you're working for McDonald's, all you have to do is show up. Even showing up is a big obstacle for many (lack of transportation) and if the employer required much more than that, then they might not find any workers.

> 1. No but I can read Tim's blog post about the same subject.

The point of what you are replying to is that you learn things from working with others that you won't learn by following their online activity. I can't believe this would even be a point to argue. I learn things by being around co-workers in person. I would feel sad for anyone who wouldn't. I'm regularly floored by what co-workers can show me and I do the same for them. The "WTF, why didn't I know about this before?" moments from them casually showing me something which was never a big to them.

The same goes for speaking with the boss, management, or anyone else outside the people you are working right next to. The information flow is massive compared to the peephole you get with remote communication. People "say" things they don't even realize they're saying. They don't have to say ANYTHING and they're still telling you a lot. Maybe I just pick up this more than other people do?

Here's an idea. Try recreating the experience of "let's go out for a beer" with a co-worker online. You can't do it. You both have to be experiencing the same environment, seeing body language, reading emotion and all that is before you even get to the point of actually speaking.

Take all this away and we might as well be robots communicating because by removing these things you are removing what makes us human.

That said, remote communication still works. I did say that in my comment.

Re: People love working remotely

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of sabotage wouldn't get past the management where I work. They'd see right through it and fire me.

But maybe that same competence would prevent them from making self-sabotaging decisions like cancelling a long-standing WFH policy.

That's precisely what the did though. The new VP is a frightening mix of extreme competence and pointy haired boss.
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