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A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

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Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#361

Post by pandaman »

mikeash wrote: post #358
pandaman wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racing is traveling, traveling is an essential human skill done by virtually everyone. Please, let us not get into bad faith argument even deeper. Nobody here is arguing against talking to people. The question is about the safe and dangerous modes of talking to people.

Commenters here are literally talking about avoiding interaction with half of the people in the world because they don’t know how to do it without getting into trouble.

Can you please give an example? I only see comments from people avoiding interaction with women at work. And they are doing this because of the potential trouble such an interaction might bring not because they are getting into trouble by doing so.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#362

Post by poke111 »

dennis_jeeves wrote: post #340

Here is the politically incorrect view, most people at the high end of the IQ are men. Like it or not, nature is not egalitarian. Why is this so f *ing complicated? Programming as a profession roughly falls under the high IQ spectrum. Ok, now some of you egalitarian nuts reading this _will_ interpret what I wrote as discriminatory, _waits for the backlash_

source?

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#363

Post by manicdee »

phlakaton wrote: post #187
bmarquez wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> men don't want to even get close to the line of doing something that could be perceived as inappropriate Yeah I am wondering why someone would stick their neck out, especially if they have below-average social skills. Lots of personal liability for little personal gain, and #MeToo just publicized the existing uneasiness with professional interactions. It's not like any women helped when I was evaluating a career in…

The way I see it: 1. Making friends isn't even remotely close to a line. The line is way out in workplace romance and sexual power politics land. The very basic mitigation strategy you have is simply not to go there. If you can't not go there, then you have other problems to deal with first, and the sooner you go about that the better! 2. If making friends isn't crossing a line, it's therefore not sticking your neck…

Sexual power politics land starts in the grey line between saying hello in the morning and giving someone unwanted attention.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#364

Post by manicdee »

Jackalopiate wrote: post #259
sp332 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because social skills can be practiced and learned. #MeToo is about physical abuse and abuse of power, not some peer who has a hard time making eye contact.

What about the incel hate that feminists are throwing around nowadays? There have been 2-3 instances of self proclaimed incel men lashing out because they can't get laid, and they have been branded as psychopathic women-haters by the far-left. The #MeToo movement was a farce anyway, and led to a lot of false accusations that some men have to deal with forever now.

Describing mass murder as “lashing out” is a bit ridiculous don’t you think?

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#365

Post by manicdee »

yosito wrote: post #359
everdrive wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dead on. To be honest, girls can get creeped out whether I have platonic intent or not. Part of what defines a guy as "creepy" is the mere fact of whether or not he's reading a girl's signals correctly. This can be problematic, since it doesn't necessarily follow that failing to read a girl's boundaries correctly means I have anything other than platonic intent. This can be circumvented for sure, but my usual…

> it doesn't necessarily follow that failing to read a girl's boundaries correctly means I have anything other than platonic intent Failing to read a _woman's_ boundaries correctly may not say anything about your intentions, but intentions don't matter if you're violating someone's boundaries. People shouldn't make excuses for not reading other's boundaries, they should learn to read other's boundaries and if they're…

Which is why men who aren’t able to read those boundaries prefer to simply avoid getting anywhere near those boundaries. The easiest way of not transgressing is to avoid contact altogether.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#366

Post by jessaustin »

yosito wrote: post #357
jessaustin wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post literally says: "the reason for your creepiness is that your intentions are to attract someone". GP's post never refers to intentions or situations or behaviors or anything. You are castigating GP for intentions and behaviors that exist entirely in your imagination.

I qualified that statement by saying "If you're saying that your attractiveness is the reason you've been told you're creepy...", because if that's what he's saying, he's admitting his intentions and I don't have to assume. If he's not saying that, then my statement doesn't apply.

Your "statement" is hopelessly wrong even if GP is saying exactly that. You have failed at logic, probably because of your privilege. You cannot imagine being conventionally ugly (poor, unstylish, socially inept, etc.) enough that your every communication would be viewed with suspicion. GP informs us that GP is at least that conventionally ugly. If GP says "good morning" while maintaining eye contact and smiling slightly, GP is seen as creepy. You have not lived like that and cannot imagine it.

Next, you'll be claiming that those who suffer racism should cultivate less racial intentions.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#367

Post by stcredzero »

ploxiln wrote: post #331
stcredzero wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, Math and Physics are in many ways similar to CS, and yet have more women. I think it might be useful to ask: In what ways are Math and Physics are different from the programming field? I think the requirement to work together on larger projects is different. What is the gender distribution of physicists working at CERN? My experience in school is that the smartest girls studied a lot more, and the smartest g…

Back in the day, there were a few more women in CS :) I still agree that CS being "less social" is a huge factor. But have to admit it seems like there's some other factors too, and I think the "less social" and "wild west" combo is pretty significant.

Back in the day, there were a few more women in CS :)

The professor I was thinking of was a woman, actually.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#368

Post by mikeash »

pandaman wrote: post #361
mikeash wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenters here are literally talking about avoiding interaction with half of the people in the world because they don’t know how to do it without getting into trouble.

Can you please give an example? I only see comments from people avoiding interaction with women at work. And they are doing this because of the potential trouble such an interaction might bring not because they are getting into trouble by doing so.

I don't think adding "at work" really makes it better.

The original comment I replied to is basically saying that men just avoid women as an "one of the unfortunate unintended consequences of the #MeToo movement." My point is that this is not due to #MeToo, it's due to people with bad social skills who think avoiding women is better than improving them.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#369

Post by stcredzero »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #230
leshow wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they pay about as much as the male dominated jobs? brickmason, drywall installation, crane operator, roofer, etc All of these jobs have 95%+ males. I can't imagine they pay very well. That's genuinely a question, not trying to be smart. It seems to me like jobs on both ends of the spectrum might not pay the best.

Stonemason - $42,370 - https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472022.htm Drywall/Ceiling tile installer - $49,250 - https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472081.htm Crane and Tower Operators - $55,690 - https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes537021.htm LPN - $45,030 - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/licensed-practical-and-li... !Requires licensure Social Worker - $47,980 - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service…

So for women-dominated jobs, it's get a degree, get 20k more a year. No wonder women are getting more degrees!

(What's more, this would seem to indicate that class disparities might be increasing more for females than for males. Maybe this explains the vehemence of radicalized females.)

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#370

Post by yosito »

manicdee wrote: post #365
yosito wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't necessarily follow that failing to read a girl's boundaries correctly means I have anything other than platonic intent Failing to read a _woman's_ boundaries correctly may not say anything about your intentions, but intentions don't matter if you're violating someone's boundaries. People shouldn't make excuses for not reading other's boundaries, they should learn to read other's boundaries and if they're…

Which is why men who aren’t able to read those boundaries prefer to simply avoid getting anywhere near those boundaries. The easiest way of not transgressing is to avoid contact altogether.

Reasonable enough, but if that's the case, we should be blaming the avoidance on men for their social incompetence, not on women for having boundaries.
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