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How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

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Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#361

Post by rickycook »

pyre wrote: post #341
tasuki wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. This is highly dependent on your location and life circumstances. I live in Eastern Europe, have resources to easily buy a couple of cars, yet choose not to. I prefer to walk or cycle. > People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground (I…

> In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground I assume that the parent post meant 0°F which is around -18°C.

why do you assume that? most countries aside from the notable exception of the US use celcius.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#362

Post by nemetroid »

Noos wrote: post #348
tasuki wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. This is highly dependent on your location and life circumstances. I live in Eastern Europe, have resources to easily buy a couple of cars, yet choose not to. I prefer to walk or cycle. > People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground (I…

I have walked in that temperature. Its only something the young and very healthy can do, and the wind cuts like a knife. I wouldn't bike in that weather due to wind chill and the slushy nature of most roads, as well as the fact its very hilly where I live. I cannot see an entire society doing this, in areas that range from small towns to medium sized cities.

> I have walked in that temperature. Its only something the young and very healthy can do, and the wind cuts like a knife.

The wind doesn't cut through proper clothes. I try to avoid the roads as well, but the bike paths work well where I live, even when the temperature goes down to -20°C.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#363

Post by DiThi »

jstanley wrote: post #333
DiThi wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody misinterpreted what I've intended. SHORT RANGE BEACONS. Enough to be "seen" by car AI through obstacles. Here's the imaginary conversation between car and beacon: - "Is someone behind that parked van?" - "Yes" - "Who?" - "Mind your own business, just slow down in case I decide to jump to the road, ok?"

If the beacons don't identify their carrier, you could very easily troll AI cars by leaving unmanned beacons lying around.

Good point... Well, that seems easy to police: Have one car patrolling for beacons not attached to what appears to be a person or bike. The only consequence of such troll beacons are cars slowing down on that point, that's all.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#364

Post by frabbit »

ars wrote: post #336
frabbit wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the dodging, it's having to stand there waiting, while they womble past in their horseless carriage ... getting in my way.

And you are getting in their way. There is a person in that car, so as far as who is more important it's equal both ways. Sometimes the person walking waits, sometimes the person in the car waits.

I don't think that it's just my biased perception that automobile traffic is favored in the timing of lights.

Given the massive external costs racked up by feckless motorists on the rest of society it rankles.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#365

Post by alasdair_ »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #96
jdhopeunique wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If automated vehicles become popular, I predict new crimes will be added in addition to jaywalking. Cyclists may be restricted and anything else that confuses AI drivers. If certain intersections or sections of road consistently confuse AI drivers, automakers will lobby for ways to change these roadways. I suspect calls for AI regulation by people like Elon Musk are really attempts at regulatory capture to make autom…

Absolutely. I see this here on hacker news with people excited about the notion of doing away with stop lights so that AI traffic can flow easily. People are completely ignoring the existence of pedestrians and cyclists. It would not be surprising to see a new crime of "hindering an autonomous automobile" be lobbied for.

>I see this here on hacker news with people excited about the notion of doing away with stop lights so that AI traffic can flow easily.

I, too, am a fan of roundabouts.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#366

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

zolthrowaway wrote: post #287
klibertp wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motion sickness comes from the conflict between your eyes and the part of your ear which tells you which way is up and lets you stay in balance. It is way less of a problem in big vehicles where you have a lot of things and people to look at, which experience the same forces as you and so move the way your brain expects. Being in control of these forces is another way of aligning what you perceive and what your brain…

Could a windowless vehicle help this? If the car is in control, there's really not any need for windows. I know we are a very long way from that level of autonomous cars, but I don't think motion sickness is the biggest hurdle we will need to overcome. There is room for a lot of creative solutions.

A windowless vehicle makes it worse, because you don't see any movement, you just feel it. As klibertp said....

> Motion sickness comes from the conflict between your eyes and the part of your ear which tells you which way is up and lets you stay in balance.

If there's no windows, then your eyes will say "We're not moving", but your inner motion sensor in your ear will say "We're definitely moving", and you'll create motion sickness.

It's for the same reason some people feel motion sickness in some VR apps that involve movement in the virtual world that doesn't match your real world movement, such as driving a car in VR. Your eyes say "We're moving", but your ear says "No we aren't!", and the discrepancy triggers motion sickness.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#367

Post by emj »

Noos wrote: post #348
tasuki wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. This is highly dependent on your location and life circumstances. I live in Eastern Europe, have resources to easily buy a couple of cars, yet choose not to. I prefer to walk or cycle. > People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground (I…

I have walked in that temperature. Its only something the young and very healthy can do, and the wind cuts like a knife. I wouldn't bike in that weather due to wind chill and the slushy nature of most roads, as well as the fact its very hilly where I live. I cannot see an entire society doing this, in areas that range from small towns to medium sized cities.

You just need some extra clothes to handle -18°C no problem at all IMHO, and as long as the temprature is below freezing you will have no problem with shitty roads. I would say the winter is the best season to bicycle, you can go everywhere.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#368

Post by tristor »

asteli wrote: post #197
Brakenshire wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could end up with roads dedicated to cars being separated from roads dedicated to pedestrians or cyclists. You could imagine if a city was designed from scratch the vehicles could move around almost in tunnel-like back-alleys, with periodic embarkation points into pedestrianized open plazas and boulevards. If Musk's reduction in cost of tunnelling is more than just a pipe-dream, then you might be able to retrofit…

This is the future of cities. Doing this would open the door for massive efficiency gains. Within these controlled "back-alleys," you could lay down metallic guides for the cars to glide down (dramatically reduced rolling friction losses), and couple vehicles moving in the same direction (dramatically reduced aerodynamic losses). Eventually you could electrify the whole thing so that cars wouldn't have to carry fuel…

I like that nobody caught on. But yes, that's basically a Metro system. The difference is that a Metro system doesn't allow divergence without transfer and it's a "mass transit" system. Autonomous vehicles provide an opportunity to blend controlled and uncontrolled transit paths, privacy, and the ability to diverge without transfer while increasing traffic efficiency, reducing the dangers of driving, and freeing up commuter time for other activities, just like mass transit.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#369

Post by Codestare »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #256
coolaliasbro wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vehicles could move around almost in tunnel-like back-alleys, with periodic embarkation points into pedestrianized open plazas and boulevards. Sounds an awful lot like a subway or lite rail system to me. I've never understood the fascination with self-driving cars and what they imply for PT--how is such a system superior to a well designed and maintained train system?

I just find it amusing because autonomous vehicles don't really solve any traffic problems. You still have too many cars on the highway at rush hour. Even if they move better, they won't move as well as a train system would for the same number of people in much less space.

And they would be very limited in their destinations.

Cars can go anywhere.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#370

Post by thinkingemote »

dingaling wrote: post #54
mattmanser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought jaywalking is only a thing in the US? I'm not sure who's less informed, you or me, I have no idea about the prevalence of the idea in other countries. It's not a crime to "jaywalk" in the UK, and I quote it as the concept simply doesn't exist here. Also, in the UK, if you are crossing a side street and a car wants to turn into it, officially speaking, the pedestrian has the right of way[1]. [1] https://www.…

> It's not a crime to "jaywalk" in the UK It is if on a designated motorway, motorway slipway or any other highway designated as a 'special road' under the Road Traffic Act 1984. If a person uses a special road in contravention of this section or of regulations under subsection (2) above, he shall be guilty of an offence.

That would be walking not jaywalking. A pedestrian cannot be on the motorway let alone cross it.
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