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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#361

Post by tonyedgecombe »

laurieg wrote: post #71
pillowkusis wrote: post #7

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

I patreon , it allows me to support podcasts and youtube producers that really wouldn't get the light of day otherwise. That said, patreon is centralised. What happens if you're a creator and that $2000 a month stops coming from patreon? I trust and believe in the now, but who knows where they'll be 5 or 10 years. PS. Patreon, please make a Japanese version of your site!

>>What happens if you're a creator and that $2000 a month stops coming from patreon?

That's no different from your employer shutting down, it happens, people move on.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#362

Post by [deleted] »

cookiecaper wrote: post #312
specialist wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the most hateful thing someone ever told you? Or that you heard (witnessed)? How did it make you feel?

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me". This old cliche is underappreciated in our day and age. Individuals are free to choose the way they process the information and commentary they receive. When someone physically assaults you, there is no choice involved, and your life is legitimately and immediately threatened by such activity in the real, physical, and non-abstract sense. It is grea…

[deleted]

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#363

Post by logicchains »

cookiecaper wrote: post #312
specialist wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the most hateful thing someone ever told you? Or that you heard (witnessed)? How did it make you feel?

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me". This old cliche is underappreciated in our day and age. Individuals are free to choose the way they process the information and commentary they receive. When someone physically assaults you, there is no choice involved, and your life is legitimately and immediately threatened by such activity in the real, physical, and non-abstract sense. It is grea…

>Individuals are free to choose the way they process the information and commentary they receive.

Some individuals fight tooth and nail to silence this idea because they're threatened by the implication that their own choices have any role to play in their misery. Life requires a lot less effort when everything bad is somebody else's fault.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#364

Post by aninhumer »

cookiecaper wrote: post #312
specialist wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the most hateful thing someone ever told you? Or that you heard (witnessed)? How did it make you feel?

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me". This old cliche is underappreciated in our day and age. Individuals are free to choose the way they process the information and commentary they receive. When someone physically assaults you, there is no choice involved, and your life is legitimately and immediately threatened by such activity in the real, physical, and non-abstract sense. It is grea…

>"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me". This old cliche is underappreciated in our day and age.

Because it's false. Words can and do hurt people, and it's not necessarily a result of their choices.

You can argue that this harm is less severe, or that preventing it isn't worth limiting speech, but to suggest it doesn't exist is just myopic.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#365

Post by philh »

lapphi wrote: post #353
syshum wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for the rest, it would appear I'm thinking more from an (American) legal perspective and the implications of various measures that might be taken, No you are seeing me state that is a violation of Freedom of Speech and jump the erroneous conclusion that I desire some kind of law, or legal penalty for that violation. I do not. I merely want to people recognize that it is infact a violation of the concept and stop…

It seems like you're claiming the success of Patreon is due to its support of the concept of "Free Speech", and by not allowing certain groups to use their website as a platform to spread their message (for example, hate speech), they're in violation of their founding principles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it up to them who they want to do business with? What is the obligation this non-governmental entity has…

"No you are seeing me state that is a violation of Freedom of Speech and jump the erroneous conclusion that I desire some kind of law, or legal penalty for that violation. I do not."

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#366

Post by aninhumer »

laurieg wrote: post #71
pillowkusis wrote: post #7

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

I patreon , it allows me to support podcasts and youtube producers that really wouldn't get the light of day otherwise. That said, patreon is centralised. What happens if you're a creator and that $2000 a month stops coming from patreon? I trust and believe in the now, but who knows where they'll be 5 or 10 years. PS. Patreon, please make a Japanese version of your site!

I'm not sure if you're talking about Patreon failing or them maliciously not sending you your money, but in either case the answer seems fairly obvious: You publish something to your audience telling them what happened, and ask them to use an alternative payment system.

You'll probably lose some portion of your income due to the friction, but given that your patrons are likely to be fairly devoted fans, I'd imagine the retention will probably be pretty good.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#367

Post by jsf666 »

wfo wrote: post #345
AlwaysBCoding wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've already fucked it up. Here's an hour long interview with Patreon's CEO, Jack Conte, where he goes through some ridiculous mental gymnastics trying to justify why it's ok he is kicking conservative journalists off his platform. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw

Yes, now white supremacists trying to make sure brown people die in the ocean using patreon funds are conservative journalists. Won't anyone think of free speech? Next he'll ban patreon crowdfunding the creation of snuff films, what a monster. It's almost like he doesn't want to be knowingly complicit in murder. I'll give you this, though, the man is devious -- can you imagine the mental gymnastics involved in watchi…

> Yes, now white supremacists trying to make sure brown people die in the ocean

Could you back up this garbage with evidence? I presume you're talking about e.g. Lauren Southern and Defend Europe.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#368

Post by Broken_Hippo »

cookiecaper wrote: post #312
specialist wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the most hateful thing someone ever told you? Or that you heard (witnessed)? How did it make you feel?

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me". This old cliche is underappreciated in our day and age. Individuals are free to choose the way they process the information and commentary they receive. When someone physically assaults you, there is no choice involved, and your life is legitimately and immediately threatened by such activity in the real, physical, and non-abstract sense. It is grea…

If only this were in any way true. There is a such thing as mental abuse, after all. Some folks lived through this growing up. Gaslighting is just words too. Folks kill themselves due to harassment. That harassment? Yeah, it can be nothing more than daily messages and/or phone calls and/or letters. Widespread, open racist speech generally signals an environment where racist actions are well-tolerated, I'm assuming (I have no links to back it up at the time). Oh, and this mental distress from words can produce physiological symptoms. But hey, they are nothing more than words, right?

The old cliche you speak of only works in a few situations. Someone calling you names or saying mean things on the street don't really hurt you if they are isolated incidents. This is the usual context when this is used. But in a broader sense? It simply doesn't pan out. It isn't the same thing, no, but I'm not sure why that matters. A slap on the rear someone should be able to get over, a punch maybe not. I'm pretty sure both can be prosecuted as physical assult in some situations yet in others, be perfectly acceptable courses of action. Same with words, it depends on how you use them to how much damage it will do.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#369

Post by [deleted] »

specialist wrote: post #263
azernik wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very US-centric view of free speech. In many other (developed, democratic) countries, a lot of the shit 8chan does would be viewed as incitement to violence, hate speech, and/or invasion of privacy. The absolutist conception of free speech in the US is an outlier.

It's a very libertarian (puerile) view of free speech. The rest of us understand principles like civility, that your rights stop where mine begin, don't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, balancing rights and responsibilities, and that hatespeech is a form of assault.

[deleted]

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#370

Post by rmc »

azernik wrote: post #229
dna_polymerase wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

That is a very US-centric view of free speech. In many other (developed, democratic) countries, a lot of the shit 8chan does would be viewed as incitement to violence, hate speech, and/or invasion of privacy. The absolutist conception of free speech in the US is an outlier.

In some ways, US cultural norms over sex, or nudity are incredibly restrictive. To some US corps, nazi apologism is OK and a defending it a vital part of free speech. But female nipples are the worst thing ever and must be banned.
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