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Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Time to Take a Stand

#361

Post by ftrflyr »

rayiner wrote: post #284
ftrflyr wrote: post #214

I'm sorry, but you fail to understand exactly what the ACLU stands for - the first word says it all. American. Green Card holders, refugees, and illegal immigrants are not Americans. We need to and should protect Americans first. Period. For all of you who don't understand not agree with this, perhaps you are unamerican?

Green card holders are subject to the draft, so I think that counts.

No. Downvote away. I don't care at this point. This community is so liberal it's nauseating. Give it a few years and the scales will tip. When you down vote comments you don't like, it's no different than reddit or discourse or yahoo news.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#362

Post by anigbrowl »

einarvollset wrote: post #235
gizmo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minorities on average earn less, have less job security and despite this they utterly rejected Trump and his hateful platform. Trump voters also weren't the most economically desperate, those people voted Clinton. Trump did well among solidly middle class white people in rural areas. So no, Trump didn't get elected because people desperate for a job were willing to overlook his hate.

Data does not support your opinion (yes I know Latinos is only one minority): https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-probably-did-bett...

Yes it does. The fact that Trump did slightly better than Romney doesn't alter the fact that he still lost big with that demographic.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#363

Post by general_ai »

meritt wrote: post #321
maratd wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The executive order specifically exempts people of minority religions in those countries I'm sorry, but are you actually upset by a provision that makes an exception for those being actively persecuted because of their religion? Regardless of what you may think of the executive order, I'm not sure how you can find fault in that.

I'm not taking a stance here, I'm using facts to prove that this ban is targeting Muslims (and only Muslims) of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen.

But not Muslims from the 189 remaining countries. So maybe it's not, in fact, about Islam per se? Do you think there is such a possibility?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#364

Post by ftrflyr »

RangerScience wrote: post #261
ftrflyr wrote: post #214

I'm sorry, but you fail to understand exactly what the ACLU stands for - the first word says it all. American. Green Card holders, refugees, and illegal immigrants are not Americans. We need to and should protect Americans first. Period. For all of you who don't understand not agree with this, perhaps you are unamerican?

No. And when you find yourself calling people unamerican, you're doing horribly. Historical example? McCarthyism. Does the ACLU stand for American as in persons, American as in culture, American as in country...? Unless you work there, not up to you. ACLU getting in on this implies America as a lot of things. America as a dream. America as a land of laws. America as a corporate entity honoring agreements. And more. Y…

No. Downvote away. I don't care at this point. This community is so liberal it's nauseating. Give it a few years and the scales will tip. When you down vote comments you don't like, it's no different than reddit or discourse or yahoo news.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#365

Post by panic »

mythrwy wrote: post #313
stonogo wrote: post #168

> This is very important people It's also complete bullshit. I actually live in a Trump-supporting area, and everyone I know who voted for him is ecstatic about this disgusting, offensive action. Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people, and I hope to God I 'push them away' as far as they'll get from me.

"Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people" I voted for Trump. I support many (not all) of his policies. I don't appreciate being called a bad person. Certainly you have a right to think this but I disagree. I won't go into what I think of people who voted for Hillary because I try not be mindlessly nasty but I don't think they are all "bad people".

Do you support this Muslim ban? If not, as a Republican voter, you have more power than most of us here to stop it. Call your representatives.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#366

Post by CalChris »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #141
jowiar wrote: post #11

This is meaningless grandstanding until: 1) YC voted Thiel off the island 2) YC establishes a policy of "take money from Thiel and you are toxic to us" Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society.

> Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. And this well represents the leftist-elitistic-rhetoric that drove so many to vote for Trump (HRC's "deplorables" comment). Five year olds say "I told you so," adults find reasonable pathways forward in difficult situations. People voted for and supported Trump for a variety of reasons, let's…

Adults usually tell five year olds I told you so after having already told them.

Republican voters had many choices in their primary. Cruz, Carson, Christie, Huckabee, ... were just as bad. So your variety of reasons isn't very convincing. At a certain point, you have to take responsibility for your vote. Hand waving it away with a variety of reasons isn't fooling anyone.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#367

Post by 551199 »

general_ai wrote: post #100

First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. Second, it's not "Muslim". Muslims from all other countries (some of them pretty large, e.g. Indonesia and Pakistan), will experience no change in their ability to enter the US. Other than Iran (which imo shouldn't be on the list) we're bombing and droning all of those countries at the moment. It's insane to accept mil…

Obama is the only President who has been in war for everyday of his 8 year presidency. Bombing several countries at the same time. Obama's actions also created the vacuum for ISIS. At least he has his Nobel Peace Prize.

No outcry or marches against Obamas actions, but goodness me when Trump has to clear the mess 'well take a stand against him'.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#368

Post by jdoliner »

jbhatab wrote: post #108

He clearly stated he would make strong policies regarding immigration. The American people voted for him knowing this and he's following through on it. I'd say “Protecting the Nation From Foreign Terrorist Entry Into the United States” is a fitting name given everything he has said up to this point. Whether or not you agree, this looks like the democratic process to me. Taking action against his policies after electi…

This is the unfortunate reality that no one wants to face. Trump ran on an anti-immigration platform and won. Contrary to what Sam says I don't think that most people voted for Trump for different reasons. Some did, but for many the anti-immigrant message was what resonated with them. Are these people racist? Probably. Is a Muslim ban repugnant? Yup. But that's how our Democracy works isn't it? Politicians campaign on their platform and if they win they enact as much of that platform as they can. If you're taking a stand against this you should at least acknowledge that you are taking a stand against Democracy. If you don't believe The President should be allowed to ban Muslim immigrants after being elected on a platform of doing so then you might as well be honest about it and say that you don't believe people who want to ban immigrants should be allowed to vote. These people are a part of our country and thanks to our Democratic system they do have a voice, that's the root cause of the problem here.

I agree with OP that there's nothing wrong with taking action after an election has already happened. Although I do think it's pretty futile, Trump has been granted all the power he needs to enact such a ban by our Democratic process.

* PS: I'm also not endorsing Trump's decision.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#369

Post by id »

djrogers wrote: post #8

> In doing so, we should not demonize Trump voters—most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban. We need their eventual support in resisting actions like these, and we will not get it if we further isolate them. This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe, a moron, and not deserving of the franchise is not going to help anything. I didn't vo…

So the reasonable people should shift down a gear so that those who take extreme positions are less offended?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#370

Post by jonstewart »

467568985476 wrote: post #176

Sama, I appreciate your taking a stand on this, but how do you reconcile YCombinator's ties with Peter Thiel? Actions speak loud than words, and so far we've only seen words from you guys. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Indeed, a lot of words from pg and sama, and no observable actions.
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