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Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

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361–370 of 383 posts

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#361
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding a secret lawsuit against a company to try and destroy them for outing you as being gay is not good behavior. This has dangerous precedent for freedom of speech in journalism. If what Gawker did was illegal in outing him, he should have sued for that. If it were just morally objectionable, he should have called them on it and let the public decide how to respond. What this lawsuit says is, "say something about…

Do you believe it was wrong for rich people to fund (via the Southern Poverty Law Center intermediary) Keenan vs Aryan Nations, on the basis of hating Aryan Nations? https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/keenan... If not, why not?

Oh for goodness sake about slippery slopes and "being logical"

May this be the one time I use this phrase

Check your bloody privilege. The Southern Poverty Law Center? Seriously?

In the real world which you, and, I and every person here HAS to operate - slippery slopes will exist because there are many local optima we HAVE to work with.

Here is one YOU have to work with. Your last name is STUCCHIO! Last I checked it is ITALIAN, via SICILY!

Which means the image in this article is totally relevant to you

http://www.seidawriter.tk/white-girl-talks-about-race/

http://seidawriter.tk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Italian-300...

Or the fact the writer is of the same background as you, and brings up that one of the largest mass lynchings was of Sicilians, in New Orleans, 1891.

Or how about this notice from the 1930s, asking Italians, Germans, and Japanese to register:

https://graphicandmaybe.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/notice.j...

So the Germans and Italians were just white enough in the US to avoid Internment Camps in the US?

Do you want to go back to that era so badly with your last name?

Meanwhile, the SPLC took in about $3.75 million in donations in 2015 - most of which was not through grants and not through funds - those are labeled differently in their audited statement here https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/splc-fs-10-31-... (the "wealthy" donors you talk of are almost always giving investments and many of those gifts have restrictions SPLC cannot go willy-nilly file lawsuits)

And do you want to know why they got the money?

https://mic.com/articles/145105/coincidence-detector-the-goo...

(and other people who are "anti-white"/not white enough)

So while you are now white enough to get any job you want, including mathematician, barber, miner, engineer, whathaveyou, and you have the luxury of having the first name of Christian, these people don't. And there are plenty of people here with first/last names that appear here, or variant spellings - and they may not even be Jewish.

https://gitlab.com/therightstuff/public/blob/30118b9db78fd87...

That's why people donate to them. People want to know they can walk around apply for a job, and speak freely, without worrying that their name, or the color of their skin, of who they love will cause them harm. Now what they said (which you complain about), Or if they are logically consistent enough.

Get over yourself and your need for everyone to be logically consistent 100% of the time. Unless you are ready to stand up and say you ant to go back to a world where it is ok for people to discriminate against you with no one who care out there on the basis of you being Italian.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#362

For the record, Scott Adams also believes in the philanthropic nature of Thiel's actions: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145205211401/billionaire-brandi...

Scott Adams is entitled to his opinion and views. But his last paragraph is way off mark and (possibly) intentionally ignorant. Pierre Omidyar is the founder of Omidyar Networks, which funds and supports many worthy causes globally.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that not be true? We do have our opinions and they do stem how we do work. Therefore we have interests, received opinions and such.

It wouldn't be true for me (as a software engineer). I would like to believe as a person more familiar with how the sausage is made, so to speak, I am more sensitive to potential threats to the industry than the layperson. Terming my concerns as "closing ranks" is a disservice because you are dismissing them without consideration or critical thinking - it's ad-hominem-lite

I believe you, but from the outside, from the public's perspective it looks like the same thing. You've said as much yourself with your comparison.

As a general heuristic, your interests are aligned with those of your community. Whether this is bad or good depends on context, usually depending on whether you've thought about the issue yourself from first principals and come to your own conclusion. Every field probably has wrongheaded ideas about something.

In engineering this alignment may be mostly pragmatic e.g. what works, what doesn't, but in some industries e.g. Hollywood, the Media, anything social, there's a different sort of pragmatism where you're expected to believe in some general themes about the world that need have no basis in reality. Being up to date with these 'stories' e.g. what beliefs about transgender bathrooms a proper person should have, is basically a peacocks tail feathers. It's pointless but shows you're a member of the tribe. You're talking of informed opinion, but again, from the perspective of an outsider, this all looks like the same thing. The tribe can hang together either because it makes sense or because they punish those who are outliers.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#364
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. The legal system has certain informal but crucial checks and balances in it. One of them is that the cost and uncertainty of litigation make it in everyone's interest to settle, and in addition insurance creates incentives to settle. A third party purposely removing those incentives distorts the process. Also to this general point, another check and balance for civil litigation are the reputational and dis…

I agree that weaponization of the courts as a tool for bullying, carrying out vendettas, and/or shutting down innovation from small companies is a huge problem (Donald Trump's penchant for this is one of the reasons I have a hard time closing the gap on supporting him). I think a good way to keep this system fairly stable but approximately prevent its weaponization is to require that each side has equivalently-priced…

This will lead to people using shell corporations so not only will you have to use an entity without assets but also have to pay for its defense.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#365
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Can you provide sources and also what do you think the end game is? Did Nick Denton know he was going to lose and go ahead anyway? Or was he just unable to conceive of losing?

Glad to oblige on sources. Here's a copy of Nick Denton's memo announcing the investment and its relevance to the Hogan litigation: http://jimromenesko.com/2016/01/20/gawker-takes-outside-mone... And here's a Fortune story with a little more background on the investors: http://fortune.com/2016/01/20/gawker-funding/ On the "endgame" question, it's worth noting that Gawker's new backer is one of the world's 100 richest…

This may be one of the worse decisions I've seen in my lifetime. Does Denton not understand the high level ramifications of his decision? Has he any sense of self perseveration not blottoed by cocaine? He is now directly under the watchful eyes.

> On the "endgame" question, it's worth noting that Gawker's new backer is one of the world's 100 richest people, with an estimated $9.8 billion net worth, according to Forbes. Thiel checks in at just $2 billion or so.

This isn't about money any more. Or laws.

> If both billionaires want to keep battling, this case could rattle around in a lot of different courts for a long time. We may not know yet who ultimately wins/loses.

Oh we may be sure Nick Denton loses. To be a fly on the wall when Garry Kasparov heard about this!

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#366
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When quite a few individuals took News International to court between 2009 and 2011 for illegally eavesdropping on their mobile phones in the UK, a number of them had their legal costs underwritten by Max Mosely. This is just the same thing: a wealthy individual making sure that legal costs do not preclude action against Gawker.

Thank you. I disagree that it's "just the same thing", but it is an interesting precedent to consider and one that I was not familiar with.

It's exactly the same thing. Mosely had his privacy violated by News International. Thiel had his violated by Gawker. Mosely set up a war chest to assist those taking legal action against News International. Thiel did so for those taking action against Gawker. Both had an axe to grind with news organisations they felt were behaving badly. Both assisted individuals with legal cases that would have otherwise gone nowhere because of the high cost of the legal system. Both News International and Gawker have relied on this in the past.

Where are the differences?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#367
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel bad for Gawker at all. I do, however, feel concerned that a rich person like Thiel can buy litigation. That's a highly dangerous capability. He's using that power for good in this case, but I doubt he always will.

> I do, however, feel concerned that a rich person like Thiel can buy litigation. That's a highly dangerous capability. Welcome to the legal system. Money allows you to mount lawsuit (frivolous or not) and mount effective defenses against them. The problem is when there's an imbalance: when a tech giant sues a small start-up (e.g., Zynga suing over the "Saga" trademark) or when an individual elects not to sue a large…

Follow up: the other argument here is that the damages awarded from the Hogan verdict shouldn't bankrupt Gawker. And that's a fair point: if total corporate annihilation is a possible outcome from publishing a story, then would the press be more leery of posting important, controversial news. Thus impacting the value of a free press.

Again, valid argument (though this case is a bad example). But your quibble is with the legal system, not with Hogan or Thiel.

You will also need to weigh fairness in tying damages to "ability to pay", as well as "news-worthiness" (e.g., not a sex tape).

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your concern is that the legal system is too expensive, complex and dangerous then you are right. But there is nothing specially worrying about industrialists in this picture. The lawsuit suit that sideswipes you is far more likely to come from some crusading NGOs or from government agents trying to look tough.

There is something particularly worrying about the industrialists: they have the most resources.

More than than, say, the average government?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#369
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe that publishing private citizen's sex tapes falls under free speech? That outing others as gay falls under free speech?

Yes. Despicable but still free.

I absolutely cannot agree with that.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#370
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"E.g." means "for example". By which I mean: there are a bunch of ways he could do this, and I was suggesting one. Also note that I said other words than "nonprofit" that are part of the example that I expected people to generalize from. But to yield to your nitpicking for a moment, your last sentence is wrong. Nonprofits have public disclosure requirements and state audits to make sure that they are acting to actual…

I agree that there are a bunch of ways he could do this. What I don't agree is that any of those other ways are inherently more moral. The morality of an action is independent of the legal structure erected around that action. You might prefer a non-profit or some other structure that doesn't make it easy for Thiel to hide his involvement, but the reality is that none of that matters morally (or legally, really). Bad…

You seem to be very excited to argue about a variety of points I'm not actually making.

Your secret-Nazi fantasies notwithstanding, I see this aa pretty simple reverse engineering. If his goal is to change how journalists behave, there are effective, well-known ways to do that. I believe his approach is inconsistent with that, but perfectly consistent with a personal vendetta.

If your carefully considered analysis of approaches to social change differs, well, it differs. I'm ok with that.

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