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I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

jonathan.porta.codes

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Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#351

Post by FireBeyond »

batou wrote: post #291
ManFromUranus wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were always free to not use new MS operating systems. Nobody forced you to make any MS accounts or use Window 8,10 or whatever, so if you installed Windows 8 and didn't like it, that doesn't make MS evil, just don't use it. Anyone who inclined to use CentOS as their daily driver probably was never going to like MS OS's anyway. You probably only ever installed it just to find out what you hate about it.

I'm actually not free to not use it. I have to test our product on these systems and therefore I will need at least a virtual machine instance of it. I have no option not to use a Microsoft account because the majority of the functionality has shifted to behind the privacy wall. Actually I installed it to test our desktop windows product against it as well as our web application in Edge. This was a decider for us: do…

That's pretty specious. Your work requires you to use it. So presumably you'll only be testing on your VM instance. And if you are using at work, then use the Enterprise version, which doesn't use a Microsoft account whatsoever. And lets you control all of these privacy concerns, including telemetry.

You bitching that your job requires you to test a product against Windows in a VM is not the same as Microsoft holding you personally hostage to give up all your personal information, however you try to spin it.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#352

Post by sudioStudio64 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #330
sudioStudio64 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't even remotely the only two choices here. There have never been more options for an end user of technology. You don't have to use agree to it. It's a trade off. If you have different requirements they are more than willing to come up with a different arrangement with you. (Yes, for a fee.) They aren't the government. They are an overblown bubble gum factory. It's up to you if you chew or not. And there ha…

What kind of fee do you have in mind for not using their contract of adhesion? Unless I'm buying thousands of copies of the OS I doubt I can even get that negotiation started.

Some of it's pay as you go, oddly enough. But you are largely correct that more money equals more access to these kinds of things.

There is a company in China that paid them to install Office 365 in their data center. There is an amount of money that will make them install it in your data center, too.

I just think that there has never been more choice for end users and a lot of this stuff about privacy is disingenuous. There are a group of people that wouldn't be happy even if MS released their own version of TAILS and hosted part of the Tor network. (It would be "embrace, extend, extinguish!"..."Tor is part sponsored by the Navy...I be MS gives your Tor traffic directly to the NSA."...It's really not hard to imagine the BS.)

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#353

Post by clessg »

theli0nheart wrote: post #327
twerkmonsta wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, logging my keystrokes in a single text input field is vastly different from logging all of my keystrokes across the board.

For a lot of people, Facebook is the board.

If you're on Facebook, then I think it's reasonable to assume that Facebook is recording what you do on Facebook.

If you use Windows, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that Microsoft is downloading your browsing history and keystrokes.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#354

Post by edoloughlin »

freehunter wrote: post #193
Animats wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant." Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers. Microsoft has already bombed twice in the business space, with Windows Vista and Windows 8. This looks like another bomb. Windows 7 is still pretty good, and it will probably be the main Microso…

>Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? I did. Linux and OSX are still available for whoever wants them. You can stick with Windows 7 if you want, that's just fine. I like Cortana. I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the…

I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in.

So do I, but I don't like my software vendors knowing it too.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#355

Post by mynameisvlad »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #342
pmelendez wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people seem to gloss over the fact that we can implement these technologies without losing privacy? e.g. voice recognition has been possible on home computers for decades now. You don't need the cloud for it. The experience is not quite the same. We have voice recognition since at least late 90's but you have to spend long hours training (> 20 hrs) in order to have a decent result (not even comparable). The…

>We have voice recognition since at least late 90's but you have to spend long hours training Microsoft could ship their pre-trained dataset with the computer, or make it available as a download. They choose not to.

gok covered this fairly well in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9978755

It's a big, really big dataset, and things get far better the more data you have. In order to even have it, let alone keep it up to date, a significant amount of space and memory would be needed.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#356

Post by tychuz »

chadzawistowski wrote: post #312
tychuz wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have no idea what you all are talking about. After fresh install, my Start looks really barren, I'd even welcome these mythical ads... http://i.imgur.com/tdkFeiQ.png

Wow, that's huge. Are you in tablet mode? If not, you can drag the edges of the start menu to resize it.

Yes you can resize it, to 1/4 of that or so.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#357

Post by npizzolato »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #299
mikegioia wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about this very issue, and I must go back and forth weekly. My first reaction is to want to defend the ignorant, to try to educate them and work to protect them from being taken advantage of. But when you talk to people about it, _their_ apathy and indifference is what leads me to stop caring. I've tried for years to educate friends, family, and coworkers on digital priva…

Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." I have adopted a passive stance on privacy and security: I stay up-to-date on news in this area, I choose for myself products and systems that minimally increase my risk, and I will answer questions from clients or other people. But, I won't evangelize it. Most people really just…

> Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient."

Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience.

Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient. Getting around using public transportation, especially in a city I'm unfamiliar with, would be a pretty awful experience without it.

While it's a small convenience, Gmail parsing my airline confirmation emails into an easy-to-read format is pretty cool, and I like that it's done. To do this (and have a spam filter), they must be parsing my private email in some capacity.

I've personally never been a fan of digital personal assistants. I've only used Google Now and found it more annoying than effective. But I can certainly understand why getting up-to-date traffic information when you're about to drive home from work would be a really useful thing to have. To do that, it has to learn your daily habits.

Convenience and privacy are almost always at odds with each other. It's a give and take, so ideally I should be getting more convenience for whatever privacy I'm giving up. That may not be the case here, and I'm not saying where your personal line should be, but don't assume people are ignorant just because they're choosing convenience over privacy. (Not saying you are personally, but others in this thread are.)

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#358

Post by sudioStudio64 »

clessg wrote: post #349
sudioStudio64 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what secrets are those? If you think that you are secure because you don't use bitlocker or windows AND THAT'S ALL that you do...you aren't secure, you just have bad UI.

I might be blind, but where was that assertion made?

I might just be tired of hearing the same arguments over and over, but it I did see the assertion that BitLocker shouldn't be used to keep your "secrets". As if the choice of which drive encryption software you use on your laptop should be your primary concern when securing yourself against an adversary. (The primary concern is to thoroughly evaluate your adversary and look at your available options for opsec and InfoSec. Maybe you need drive encryption. Maybe you need burners. Maybe you should only use public terminals. Etc. It also means seriously asking yourself if you actually have an adversary or just like to think that you might some day.)

Just sort of saying..."How can you trust MS NOT to have backdoored bitlocker just use Linux. Suck it NSA." Won't actually make you secure.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#359

Post by JimmaDaRustla »

Said this in another thread:

Not sure what the fuss is about, the same old rule applies: if you want your data to be private, don't use any form of cloud services - server based voice/video chat, cloud storage services (google drive, skydrive, icloud), digital assistants (siri, cortana, google now), any contextual based delivered services which "learns" anything about you to provide you with any form of automated and/or dynamic experience.

If you want to be treated like you live in a box, then you're going to have to live by it.

Everyone complaining and "fed up", closing their MSDN accounts, boycotting MSFT products - you're in an echo chamber which won't be heard as our devices become more service oriented rather than boxed solutions. MSFT is trying to stay relevant, not undermine their massive user base. Whether it is right or wrong, I don't have an opinion on, but if you think MSFT is a pioneer in this space, you're being unjustly biased.

I guess the only thing we can complain about is that we aren't given a "closed/boxed" solution and able to accept the TOS to services we want on an adhoc basis - we have to go and disable services and hope that the TOS we agreed to needn't apply.

Perhaps these are growing pains for the direction services are heading because we shouldn't have to accept invasion of privacy as a default.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#360

Post by ackalker »

vetinari wrote: post #301
x5n1 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now if can only do the same with Google and Android, we'd be all set. Why does Google get a get out of jail for free card in this? Android is like the spying on everything you do operating system. Your location, your voice, your pictures, your passwords, I mean fuck... There is nothing Android doesn't know about you that it doesn't share with Google and on request the US government.

> Your location, your voice, your pictures, your passwords, However, it will ask you first about that. And it is not actually Android, it is Google Play Services. For snitching your pictures, you have to download an extra app by yourself. If you don't like that and you don't want to say 'no' when asked, use Cyanogen without Gapps. That way, you'll get non-spying vanilla Android. (That means without Play Store too).

To add: you can use software like Raccoon: http://www.onyxbits.de/raccoon

Use it with a throwaway Google account to download apps from the Play Store, then use adb to install them on your device. This works fine for apps which don't rely on specific Google libraries or services being installed on your device.

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