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I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

jonathan.porta.codes

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Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#171

Post by JoshTriplett »

chc wrote: post #153
JoshTriplett wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm well aware of how phones handle speech recognition; there are reasons they do so via services that have little to do with the computational difficulty of speech recognition. It's not by any means necessary to upload raw voice data to a server and process it there, especially if we're talking about full computers rather than just phones. > And connecting to O365 calendars offline? Is that not a stupid concept? I s…

> we're talking about full computers Worth mentioning: Windows 10 is not just for "full computers."

I'm aware, but the line is becoming increasingly blurred, and there's enough power on even the average phone to do speech recognition.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#172

Post by bad_user »

_yosefk wrote: post #122
vitd wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a difference in perception between Apple's "trusted partners" and MS and Google's "trusted partners". Since MS and Google make a large amount of money from selling you to others, I just instantly assume that they're sharing my data with advertisers . Since I pay for all my Apple stuff and they repeatedly say that they don't sell my data, I assume that "trusted partners" means companies they've outsourced…

Isn't MS closer to Apple than Google in terms of how it makes money? You pay directly for all or most of its stuff. Also, I thought Google sold your eyeballs to advertisers but not your data nor how it figured that it were your eyeballs that were most fit for the ad. (I guess for some ads, the very fact that it thought your eyeballs were fit for them already discloses more about you than you'd like... and I'd guess t…

Microsoft has Bing and their own advertising platform, with a tight partnership with Yahoo. Bing is now tightly integrated within Windows since version 8, ads and all. It's really irrelevant how much money Microsoft makes from this when they are in the same business.

Also, I interacted with Google's AdX and others and I must say that Google's AdX is much more restrictive in the user data exposed. The identifiers they give are completely unreliable for tracking users and they don't even give away the full IP. They are also doing a good job in reviewing the content being served on the client side, they detect if you're setting cookies or doing other things that are against their policy and their approval process is a pain in the ass. Other competing platforms, like MoPub (now owned by Twitter), are much more relaxed.

The general rule of thumb in the ads space - the bigger you are, the more eyes are watching you, this is why smaller players are breaking the rules with the purpose of grabbing as much land as possible before going public.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#173

Post by pmelendez »

joosters wrote: post #85
ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

It's possible to do all this personalization without giving away your data to advertisers. Unfortunately Microsoft chose not to. Why do people seem to gloss over the fact that we can implement these technologies without losing privacy? e.g. voice recognition has been possible on home computers for decades now. You don't need the cloud for it.

> Why do people seem to gloss over the fact that we can implement these technologies without losing privacy? e.g. voice recognition has been possible on home computers for decades now. You don't need the cloud for it.

The experience is not quite the same. We have voice recognition since at least late 90's but you have to spend long hours training (> 20 hrs) in order to have a decent result (not even comparable). The fact that is cloud based now enable the software to fit better to different accents and pronounciations.

Another thing is that personalization is not really possible in today devices if you want more than 3hrs battery.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#174

Post by the8472 »

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #106
the8472 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're going off tangents here. Obviously the premise of this discussion is that you install their software. IF you install windows 10 THEN you agree to their terms of service which includes granting them access to your private files.

I'm going off on a tangent? YOU installed their software. You didn't have to. No one forced you to. Don't like the TOS? Call them and schedule a meeting to talk about coming up with a different arrangement...they will want money for that, but you can certainly have it. The truth is that there is jack all that I or anyone else can say to you that would change your mind about any of this. Also, I'm not willing to grant…

> YOU installed their software.

I did? I never said so. I'm just looking at their Privacy Statement and find questionable clauses there.

> Also, I'm not willing to grant that you are reading the TOS correctly

I did say that's a possibility from the start. But as long as nobody shows that it's not possible that my reading is not how a lawyer or judge would read it I remain deeply skeptical about it.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#175

Post by tobias3 »

I lost trust into Microsoft when they put an "Outlook" app into the Android app store, which when connected to an Exchange server downloads all the account messages and calendar data to a cloud server (probably in order to have push messages whithout changing Exchange itself). Really Microsoft, why do you think I have an Exchange server. Because it is easy to set up, administer and costs nothing?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#176

Post by hyperion_ »

rifung wrote: post #125
coldpie wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the games really worth it? There's a lot of games out there. You can live with missing a few Windows-exclusive titles.

Are most games on OS X too? The last time I checked the majority of games were not on Linux.

The general lack of games for OS X and Linux these days is pretty much exclusive to the AAA games.

There has been some focus on porting older games to OS X and Linux in the past year or two, so the situation is constantly improving.

If you mainly play AAA games, then you're stuck with Windows, but there are definitely some good games out there right now for non-Windows users.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#178

Post by kleiba »

Animats wrote: post #167
ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

"Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant." Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers. Microsoft has already bombed twice in the business space, with Windows Vista and Windows 8. This looks like another bomb. Windows 7 is still pretty good, and it will probably be the main Microso…

Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers.

...nor with some private customers. Microsoft seems to be overlooking that not all nations are so happy about "the cloud" as the average American seems to be. Germany for one, where I currently live, is much more sceptical of sharing personal data -- potentially motivated by some of its 20th century history.

But all that aside, a lot of people only used their computer occasionally, say to write a letter (again, Germany, a lot of bureaucracy still requires paper letters over here). Transparently syncing documents with an external server that you have absolutely no control over is really nothing such a user wants.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#179

Post by api »

pdkl95 wrote: post #124

https://projectbullrun.org/surveillance/2015/video-2015.html... Of course MS wants to get in on surveillance-as-a-business-model. It keeps people tied to your Service as a Software Substitute, and as long long as most people are still ignorant about how technology works, they won't notice how the stalker-like nature of a lot of modern soft^H^H^H^Hmalware. As for the few nerds that notice, they can probably be shut up…

I'm increasingly believing that for privacy to live, a necessary (but not sufficient) condition is for free to die.

By free I mean free as in beer, not free as in freedom. The problem is that if everything has to be free, there can never be any money in the actual maintenance and development of the product. User-centric and privacy-respecting business models are impossible if the product is free.

It's necessary but not sufficient because Windows isn't free (well 10 is quasi-free for some people), but it still does these things. So being non-free is no guarantee. But I believe it's a necessary condition since without some revenue stream independent from surveillance and other "indirect monetization" streams there is absolutely no hope of delivering a professional consumer-grade experience that could compete in the general market.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#180

Post by jblow »

dimino wrote: post #107

I'll bet everything in my pocket that Windows 10 does not keylog every stroke and send it back to Microsoft servers for storage. It's intellectually dishonest to think that's what s going on, because it ruins the conversation about what they're actually doing.

Whether they don't right this second doesn't matter. Their terms of service say they can. If they decided it was unthinkable that they would ever do this, they could have written their TOS to be less overreaching. But they didn't do that. Therefore they think it's a possibility (if in fact they are not already doing it. Are you so sure? How do you know?)
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