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SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

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Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#351

Post by jcc80 »

ericabiz wrote: post #217
blhack wrote: post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

> "Most [all, actually] of the women I've talked to about this are furious with her over how badly this portrays women." Okay, time to speak up! Hi, I'm a woman in tech. And this upset me, but not for the reasons you think. I agree that Adria went too far in publicly Tweeting and "name and shaming" these guys. But the vitriol and hate that has spewed forth online to her is what takes my breath away. Comments calling…

"Right now it's been a week and I'm still working out the best course of action."

You said it was a flippant comment that was borderline sexist...How about just move on with your life? As a guy, if someone makes a comment that identifies themselves as a jerk I just think, "Hey, that person is a jerk & I prefer not to deal with them."

Harassment is another story but that's not what this is. Also, I wouldn't assume that the psychos making all of these threats represent the tech community. The story has spilled into a lot of media and the most extreme disturbed people don't represent "the community" just like a woman getting offended by a silly pun doesn't represent women in tech.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#352

Post by rmc »

WalterSear wrote: post #176
niggler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want Adria to apologize for actions that were outside of her control (like the guys getting fired). If anything, the overreaction by everyone involved merely proves that the issue of gender in the industry is still significant.

They want her to apologize for inappropriately publicly shaming them, and the actions that resulted from that.

Yeah, it's better if women don't speak up about the sexual jokes at conferences

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#353

Post by Tichy »

raganwald wrote: post #219
blhack wrote: post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same room as this person. What if I accidentally say something that she finds offensive? Am I next? People say the same things all the time in companies where women complain about inappropriate sexuality. "What if I say something that offends her?" Most of us are good, inoffensive people. We are saddled with growing up in a world that is changing. It used to be accept…

You assume that taking offense is always reasonable, or whoever feels offended is always right. Also, playing the emotion card (it hurts my feelings/sensibilities) is a way to excert power and control.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#354

Post by shardling »

tgrass wrote: post #274
ericabiz wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Most [all, actually] of the women I've talked to about this are furious with her over how badly this portrays women." Okay, time to speak up! Hi, I'm a woman in tech. And this upset me, but not for the reasons you think. I agree that Adria went too far in publicly Tweeting and "name and shaming" these guys. But the vitriol and hate that has spewed forth online to her is what takes my breath away. Comments calling…

So in a nutshell: It was sexist and offensive but her reaction was unprofessional. As you wrote, "you just snap." Unfortunately, just snapping is a firing offense. If I have a bad day, and I yell at my boss, I suffer the consequences. The shame of this situation is that the problems of the industry's sexism will be ignored because of her (perhaps momentary) lack of professionalism.

>The shame of this situation is that the problems of the industry's sexism will be ignored because of her (perhaps momentary) lack of professionalism.

If it's ignored, it's because people look very hard for reasons to ignore it.

It's not even necessarily conscious; by deciding that there's no problem, you don't have to to feel guilty about not doing anything about it. Our brains are really good at finding reasons to opt for inaction. :)

(The idea/meme that somehow each and every woman has to be a saint to move gender relations forward is pretty pathetic, btw.)

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#355

Post by craigyk »

sanli wrote: post #111

None of them could have got fired in Sweden. Do you think as an american that US should have stronger protection for the employer?

Is that true? I recently listened to a story about one of the Nordic countries, it may have been Denmark?, and how employers can easily fire employees. They argued that this, along with really good unemployment benefits, actually helps the economy by making the work force more fluid.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#356

Post by xauronx »

knowtheory wrote: post #300
WalterSear wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also happens to men in female dominated fields and social enviroments. It's not inherently sexist - humans use stereotypes to categorize everything and everyone, and we haven't, as a society, codified how we should navigate these kind of conflicts without butthurt.

But men in female dominated fields tend not to get death threats and photos of beheaded corpses, or threats of rape. The way that women get treated in male dominated fields like tech really has gotten worse.

Eh, I really really don't think it's gotten worse. I'm not saying it's perfect but if the worst thing a female has to complain about in a male dominated field is someone making a crack about their wife and someone mistaking her boyfriend for the entrepreneur, that's not SO bad.

Try going into a car dealership with your father if you're younger than 25. See who gets talked to.

Try being anywhere and not hearing people bitch about their significant other.

I wish people would stop attributing human nature to sexism/racism. I could go to a beautician convention with my beautiful girlfriend and pretend to be offended when they focus on her, despite there being a decent number of men who are into that. When humans are faced with repeated patterns they get lazy and make assumptions. It's part of what makes us have our intelligence. It's not a malicious disrespect or intentional exclusion (in most cases).

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#357

Post by wilg »

colin_jack wrote: post #174
Joeboy wrote: post #5

Given the way this has escalated I'm expecting it to have engulfed the entire civilized world by the end of the week. You Americans are crazy.

This has confused me. As a European the idea that making dongle jokes is specifically sexist or worse harassment seems a bit odd. Its childish, its in bad taste, and not very funny. Its also against pycon rules so they got their wrists slapped like naughty children which is all fine. However the idea it was anything more serious is kinda confusing to me.

I feel like this isn't an "American" vs. "European" thing. There's clearly a lot of controversy over the seriousness of these jokes in America and elsewhere.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#358

Post by [deleted] »

mwetzler wrote: post #287
blhack wrote: post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

> the women I've talked to about this are furious with her This doesn't represent the views of all women in tech. What happened to Adria could happen to any of us outspoken women. She didn't handle the situation perfectly, but there's no way she could have known this would unfold in this way. She said she didn't want the guy to get fired and apologized to him. I'm horrified by what happened to her and now afraid the…

[deleted]

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#359

Post by Irregardless »

After reading her full explanation of the "incident" and the PyCon code of conduct, I have to disagree completely with what Adria did.

Two guys were making some silly, completely non-sexist jokes between themselves that mixed 'dongles' and 'forking' with a bit of innuendo. Despite the fact that they weren't directed at her -- or anyone, for that matter -- she took personal offense and decided the best course of action was to publicly shame them (picture and all).

Her reaction was far more immature than the humor that triggered it. If you're 30-something years old and still can't handle overhearing a bit of lighthearted middle school humor, it's probably time to move into a cave and cancel your internet service.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#360

Post by btilly »

nilkn wrote: post #168
salman89 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same room as this person. What if I accidentally say something that she finds offensive? Am I next?" I'm not agreeing with anything Adria did, but the issue of being labeled as the "tattletale" probably plays a big part in most women's reluctance to report real harassment.

I'm honestly curious what this even has to do with women. That's what puzzles me most about this whole incident. Maybe I'm insensitive or ignorant. I'll admit it if that's the case and learn. Right now, though, I just don't get it. I just don't see how a dongle joke is sexist. It's anatomical . It might have some mild sexual undertone, but there's a huge difference between sexism and a sexual undertone--they aren't t…

According to her account, the dongle joke came in a discussion of how the men would like to be thanked for having helped sponsor the conference. Shortly after they were making "forking" jokes riffing off of a conversation that she was in. When she was the only woman sitting near.

If so (I am basing this on her account, so definitely an if here), then the sexual overtone is not that mild, and (rightly or wrongly) she appears to have felt personally targeted. Though in a way that is plausibly deniable.

Does that help you understand why she might have had a strong emotional reaction?

Of course the actual actions she took were the wrong ones to take, and caused the whole thing to go nuclear. But the way our brains are wired causes us, when feeling strong emotion, to skip all of our normal logic and self-control and just react. So what she did was highly unfortunate - definitely not what you want to see from your company's public face - but understandable.

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