Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

harthur.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 826 posts

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#351

Post by friendly_chap »

rjzzleep wrote: post #328
jlongster wrote: post #36

What the fuck. (And I rarely say that word.) We've got to grow up. This is 9th grade all over again. You know, those weird people that do things that you don't understand? They're the ones that grow up and make big impacts on the world. Why can't we get over our negativity? We can't stop ourselves from thinking horrible things, or even saying them out loud to people around us, but surely we can restrain ourselves fro…

the hell are you talking about? every person that created something worthwile in this world has been ridiculed. for good reason. i hate the fact that people here spout that uber positivity crap. you know what, you mess up -> you get ridiculed, what do you do? you make something better. The world is not this pretty flower place where everyone can be happy and strive at the same time. there is no rich without poor, and…

I fail to see what is being wrong with being positive and happy. We should strive to make the whole world as universally happy as possible.

We can improve others with constructive criticism.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#352

Post by xs_kid »

mbillie1 wrote: post #261
marcamillion wrote: post #206

This is par for the course in the Rails community. Once some Rails devs get more experienced, they think it's ok to shit on everyone else. Granted, not all are like that...but many are. God forbid you should stumble into #RubyOnRails on IRC. Thank God for Stack Overflow!

This to me is very unfortunate. I'm an experienced Ruby and RubyOnRails developer, and I think that this is totally unacceptable. This is why the Python community flourishes (and I learned to code with Python!), and the Ruby community, which has unfortunately become equated to the Rails community, relatively languishes. I also think it's pretty funny/awful/ridiculous to see Rails devs hating on JS code. (JS is diffic…

The developer of Prototype had to handle also with a lot of criticism and there is his response: http://sstephenson.us/posts/you-are-not-your-code

"I have learned that in the open-source world, you are not your code. A critique of your project is not tantamount to a personal attack"

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#353

Post by dvdkhlng »

aidenn0 wrote: post #330
tptacek wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what this even means. I'd already be running v8 runtimes. They're unavoidable. But there's no need to fork and exec (many times over) just to sweep a filesystem tree for files matching patterns. It's the shell, by the way, that cares about "spaces in filenames". Not dicking around with shell metacharacters is just one of the many wins you get by not shelling out to accomplish basic programming tasks.

I get what you're saying for the "already in a REPL" thing, but as far as fork/exec overhead, xargs does a single fork/exec for every thousand or so files you search; the overhead is tiny compared to everything else.

Not even that, but xargs can also be made to run N processes in parallel ('xargs -P N'), making a find|xargs sed pipe perform much better than anything you could easily invent on your own.

Note that 'xargs -P' behaves very similar to 'make -j' and is often useful as a simple work-unit scheduler.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#354

Post by keeperofdakeys »

lloeki wrote: post #346
tptacek wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been coding since 1993 and I have never made room in my brain for stuff like -print0. Moreover, there are times when you'll want to do this stuff from within another program. What are you going to do, shell out to a find(1) pipeline? Then people like me will be giving you shit. There's nothing wrong with rewriting sed in Javascript.

> There's nothing wrong with rewriting sed in [X] Indeed, especially since there's sed and sed . The examples given use -i, but no luck with BSD sed, where you will use -i~ at best. Also, lack of -e before the expression may make things blow up at times. And the sed regex does not support stuff like +, so many times I end up replacing sed -i~ -e with perl -pi -e or ruby. Besides, sometimes your looping logic is not i…

> And the sed regex does not support stuff like +

Are you talking about BSD sed here, because GNU sed does support + with the -r flag.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#355

Post by kamaal »

mrb wrote: post #334
kamaal wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point everyone is trying to make here is. Should every person spend 5-10 minutes doing this? If the problem occurs too frequently, it makes more sense to make the solution re usable. Which is exactly what 'replace' is doing here.

Then write it once and share the wrapper script on github. No?

C'mon we are long past the days where tools had to written in $somelanguage. These are days where even things like compilers and databases are not being written in C.

If its of any help I think its time for the Unix community as a whole to sit down and self reflect. If people are beginning to think something like 'sed' as too level to use, then better job needs to be done to make them more accessible and usable. There are enough examples on this thread where people are saying that they look at sed as an API on top which a program needs to be built up on. And not a complete program in itself. Also shell is not a full fledged programming language.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#356

Post by zem »

tptacek wrote: post #225
zem wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the worst bit is that a lot of the ridicule seems motivated by the fact that it's fashionable to hate on node.js. this tweet as much as admitted it: https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/293831920872194050

The worst bit about it is that it's part of a petty language squabble?

no, that a petty language squabble was worth abusing someone over - it had very little to do with her actual code

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#357

Post by catwell »

quasque wrote: post #82
jlongster wrote: post #36

What the fuck. (And I rarely say that word.) We've got to grow up. This is 9th grade all over again. You know, those weird people that do things that you don't understand? They're the ones that grow up and make big impacts on the world. Why can't we get over our negativity? We can't stop ourselves from thinking horrible things, or even saying them out loud to people around us, but surely we can restrain ourselves fro…

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a strong undercurrent of misogyny involved here, motivating their incivility and rudeness.

Accusing everybody criticizing a woman of sexism is certainly not helping. They almost certainly didn't know she is a woman. Moreover Steve Klabnik at least is a widely known ally (http://confreaks.com/videos/1089-madisonruby2012-anti-opress...)

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#358

Post by kayoone »

mrb wrote: post #223
RaphiePS wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who finds replace's syntax much nicer? I haven't spent much time learning unix utilities, so that might explain it. But I can't help but shudder at find . -type f ! -name ' .min.js' ! -name ' .py' -print0 | xargs -0 sed -ri 's,var,let,g'

She was able to simplify her command line interface in order to support only the features she needed, so of course her syntax is nicer. Whereas sed/find/xargs can do a lot more things, so of course they come with a more evolved syntax. It is the usual tradeoff between simplicity and features.

Exactly, and its something happening all the time and many people seem to like it. If not, everyone would be using Linux Desktops vs OSX/Windows, vim/emacs vs Sublime/Textmate/an IDE, plain ruby/python/etc vs Rails/Django/etc, OpenGL/DirectX vs Unity/any Game Engine etc.

Even in the consumer world, this is Apples strongest selling point for example. Make products simple and easy to use, but still do 90% of what anyone would want to do with it. If that isnt enough, there are other things to use.

I think the same can be said over replace. I find your skills with sed/grep impressive and its certainly very useful in some cases (mostly devOps) but in case i need it myself i would just look it up and in the meantime use simpler tools and get the job done.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#359

Post by peterwwillis »

tptacek wrote: post #221
mrb wrote: post #200

Heather, I agree that people are unnecessarily rude to you. Don't sob. Your code shows you are already a more capable programmer than most of the ones I interview. No one has given you a clear answer as to why your code is reinventing the wheel, so allow me to do it politely. I took every single example from your README, and show you below how everything can be reimplemented with sed -r (nice extended regex syntax, m…

I've been coding since 1993 and I have never made room in my brain for stuff like -print0. Moreover, there are times when you'll want to do this stuff from within another program. What are you going to do, shell out to a find(1) pipeline? Then people like me will be giving you shit. There's nothing wrong with rewriting sed in Javascript.

Sure, if this were intended for doing it from within a JS program.

But it's not. It's a command-line tool. To replace the best, most powerful, most flexible, most stable tool (and additional tools) made for the command-line for this exact purpose. This is the definition of reinventing a square wheel. It's just a bad idea.

(p.s. by using xargs (with or without -print0) you can use one option to parallelize the function, vs writing it all in your own code. but i guess getting mad over a fork/exec call is a better idea)

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#360

Post by keeperofdakeys »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #274
mrb wrote: post #200

Heather, I agree that people are unnecessarily rude to you. Don't sob. Your code shows you are already a more capable programmer than most of the ones I interview. No one has given you a clear answer as to why your code is reinventing the wheel, so allow me to do it politely. I took every single example from your README, and show you below how everything can be reimplemented with sed -r (nice extended regex syntax, m…

>If you care about simplicity, I would personally rather write a small shell script wrapping find/xargs/sed and hiding their arcane options, as opposed to writing 173 lines of js. I would rather use my language of choice to implement the above (mine wouldn't be JavaScript, but it clearly was Heather's) than to research all of those arcane command lines. Rather obviously YOUR language of choice for this kind of proble…

I'd present the argument that, once you learn sed, it has the possibility to replace more then just this 'replace' command. If you tend to live a lot on the commandline, you'll naturally start using it where appropriate, and become more familiar. After learning how regular expressions work, it really amazed me how many things I used to think "I'd have to write a script for this", when now I just write a quick line of sed.
Post reply on HN