German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad • Hacker News Board

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#351

Post by ndarray » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:36 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #314

ihsw wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't refugees/immigrants conscripted over citizens?

Because not only that the immigrants have no allegiance to Germany, most have different culture and sometimes incompatible values. I grew up in the Middle East and I can tell that cultural differences and values were more smooth and compatible than what I saw in Germany. Conscription requires a degree of trust in the people you give guns to and expect to fight on your side in case it is needed, that is mostly not tru…

Ten years of "refugees welcome" to fighting age men who we don't trust won't run amok when we go to war with a third party. Very cool.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#352

Post by pfannkuchen » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

atmavatar wrote: post #52

znpy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also discriminatory on the basis of the gender, “weird” that nobody’s complaining about that.

Men are biologically disposable. If a nation lost 90% or better of its adult male population, it could still bounce back within a generation or two. Women have no incentive to change that, and the small fraction of men powerful enough to change it can already exempt themselves from the meat grinder. The remaining men's opinions don't matter.

So this definitely works for hunter gatherers and that’s definitely how humans are architected, I agree.

However, if I think through what this process would look like under modern living arrangements, what would happen? Intensified serial polygamy with a massive increase in single motherhood? Full on polygamy?

Our social structures aren’t really set up to handle that. It seems like it would be so bad for society that I wouldn’t really say men are “disposable” under the current arrangement. More like they are the roof and women are the foundation, maybe.

It’s better to lose your roof than your foundation, sure, but losing your roof is still really bad. It does not really compare to, say, throwing out a paper coffee cup.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#353

Post by pfannkuchen » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:41 PM UTC

someguydave wrote: post #54

jalapenoj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drafts seem like an outdated pre-globalist concept. Die for the borders nobody respects anyway. You need to be nationalistic when it’s useful to your leaders that hate you. Of course just the natives need to die, all the immigrants won’t be doing that.

Fine you can make do in the Congo with everyone else who disrespects borders

Are you proposing we send undocumented migrants to the Congo? That’s a terrible idea!

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#354

Post by machomaster » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:42 PM UTC

mikkupikku wrote: post #240

xandrius wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about a government which sends sons? Your point makes absolutely no sense, especially in relation to feminism. Equal rights and equal duties.

We're not having this conversation in a cultural vacuum; men figure out at a young age that if things go to shit, their lives become expendable for the sake of the community. I view conscription as a form of slavery; something that I hope never happens to me or anybody, but could conceivably happen. That's the way the world has worked for thousands of years, and the Bayesian meme asks me to therefore bet on it contin…

Why should men sacrifice and die for nothing, by not getting anything in return, not even a simple appreciation? Why should only men die when things get tough? I also would much rather see other unknown women die, than to send myself or my son to die for them.

Women need to pull their weight. And since they aren't doing that from the evolutional POV, neither in practice (birth crisis) nor in theory (not like giving birth is a legal duty, unlike a draft), then they can at least be useful for a society as a cannon fodder. The more women start pulling their weight and contribute, the less weight there will be for men to pull. What not to love about this equality!

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#355

Post by Argonaut998 » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

hulitu wrote: post #216

shin_lao wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the Ukraine war. Who is being drafted against their will?

Everybody. Do you have some statistics ?

I haven’t seen any women be bussed or blown up with a drone yet. Are you sure this is the case?

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#356

Post by dang » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

mikrl wrote: post #92

Posted previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47626116

Comments moved thither. Thanks!

Edit: actually, we'll merge them hither instead of thither since current article is in English.

(We have deep respect for other languages, but HN has always been an English-language site - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...)

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#357

Post by throw-the-towel » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

agrishin wrote: post #172

diath wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier to repopulate... at the expense of men being considered essentially disposable by the society. I should have as much right to not being forcefully sent to my death to wage billionaires' wars as the other half of population.

Well, you see, if men stay alive, but women are killed, society collapses eventually as not enough new people are born. It sucks being a man in this scenario, but it is what it is.

Arguably, not enough people are being born as it stands. We're already in your collapse scenario.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#358

Post by ashleyn » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:45 PM UTC

nslsm wrote: post #295

missedthecue wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most young men don't have wives or daughters. It's not 1850 anymore. I would rather both genders get drafted than be in a Ukraine situation where millions of women leave for richer countries while I am pulled off the street to go eat FPV drones. What's even the point? Why not surrender? What am I protecting or preserving?

You are protecting a society who doesn’t care about you. Aren’t you glad?

This goes missed a lot in debates about conscription. The Iran war in the US and the Ukraine war in Russia enjoy very little popular support among military aged men. This is in stark contrast to WW2, and even in Vietnam there was still a strain of thinking of draft resisters as cowards. But wars in this day and age enjoy a shockingly tiny public mandate, and it's entirely possible that governments can only do a draft on paper. Putin is practically unable to push further mobilisation because the first round provoked such stiff violence and resistance.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#359

Post by atmavatar » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:46 PM UTC

mikkupikku wrote: post #240

xandrius wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about a government which sends sons? Your point makes absolutely no sense, especially in relation to feminism. Equal rights and equal duties.

We're not having this conversation in a cultural vacuum; men figure out at a young age that if things go to shit, their lives become expendable for the sake of the community. I view conscription as a form of slavery; something that I hope never happens to me or anybody, but could conceivably happen. That's the way the world has worked for thousands of years, and the Bayesian meme asks me to therefore bet on it contin…

> That's not feminism, that's insanity.

No, it's equality.

Taken to its logical conclusion, you cannot have gender equality without either making the draft cover everyone or abolishing it entirely.

The fact that women losing their lives is so much larger a risk for the nation only serves to test the resolve of those people claiming to want gender equality, but this is not the only time you'll find a conflict between idealism and reality, even within the scope of gender equality.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#360

Post by ndarray » Sat, Apr 04, 2026, 6:47 PM UTC

victorbjorklund wrote: post #79

askonomm wrote: post #69

So are you also not allowed to move away or? I find it pretty messed up that your life as a man is literally owned by the government.

No, it literally says the law says you must seek permission if you wanna leave for more than 3 months and the govt must always grant you this if not in a war. And if you fail to seek permission nothing happens. You can ignore it without consequence.

At least Germany isn't looking at entering any wars at the moment...