Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

frommers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 780 posts

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#351

Post by insane_dreamer »

ibejoeb wrote: post #49
thyrsus wrote: post #35

Explain to me how qualified immunity is better than any ill it is supposed to address? And how is it that if you sue the government and win, then the judgement doesn't automatically award reasonable legal fees?

Two separate things. Qualified immunity is just immunity from individual liability afforded to government agents when conducting government business, as long as they are conducting it properly.

> as long as they are conducting it properly.

I think ICE has clearly demonstrated that this is not true

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#352

Post by trailbits »

Fhch6HQ wrote: post #221
autoexec wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID Those that did had to pay $30-$60 plus fees (actual cost differs by state) to get one and will have to pay that again and again each renewal. This is certainly making money somewhere for somebody and not at all about security

What states do you have to pay for your Real ID every time? Yes, you have to pay to renew your license or photo ID, but the Real ID fee in my state (PA) is one-time. Renewal costs are the same whether it's a Real ID or not.

WA state it is an extra $56 every time you renew for Real ID

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#353

Post by Vicinity9635 »

TSA's searches without a warrant are illegal.

The fourth amendment:

>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

And no, you cannot convince me that searching families flying to see grandma for Christmas is a "reasonable search".

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#354

Post by [deleted] »

defrost wrote: post #336
noduerme wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a white guy who was caught accidentally carrying a large knife once through security, at the bottom of a carry-on backpack I'd had since high school, I don't think it's in any way essential to use racial or ethnic markers to figure out whether someone is taking something dangerous onto a plane. I didn't even know I was trying to bring a knife onto a plane at a regional airport. There's no reason to think that Sikh…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#355

Post by zeroonetwothree »

Vicinity9635 wrote: post #353

TSA's searches without a warrant are illegal. The fourth amendment: >The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. And no, you cannot…

You are entering government property so they have a right to search you. Just like if you enter a sporting event they have a right to search you. You are free to not use either service.

Now we could argue that this isn’t a desirable way to do things but I don’t how it would violate the fourth amendment.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#356

Post by happymellon »

sargun wrote: post #263
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I used to work with a Kevin and a Mohammed.

Whenever we travelled to offsite offices Mohammed 100% of the time was picked for bag check, while Kevin was not picked once.

Mohammed was white, and Kevin was black.

It was completely racist, and never random.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#357

Post by Vicinity9635 »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #355
Vicinity9635 wrote: post #353

TSA's searches without a warrant are illegal. The fourth amendment: >The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. And no, you cannot…

You are entering government property so they have a right to search you. Just like if you enter a sporting event they have a right to search you. You are free to not use either service. Now we could argue that this isn’t a desirable way to do things but I don’t how it would violate the fourth amendment.

Read the fourth amendment since you clearly didn't the first time.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#358

Post by keeda »

caseysoftware wrote: post #160
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security.

To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want.

A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where somebody felt uncomfortable boarding a plane because they saw the screening agent asleep at the desk. Pro-tip, trying to explain security theater to the concerned passenger is not the right solution at this point ;-)

Even Bruce Schneier, who coined the term "security theater" has moderated his stance to acknowledge that it can satisfy a real psychological need, even if it's irrational.

We may be more cynical and look upon such things with disdain, but most people want the illusion of safety, even if deep down they know it's just an illusion.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#359

Post by otterley »

Vicinity9635 wrote: post #353

TSA's searches without a warrant are illegal. The fourth amendment: >The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. And no, you cannot…

Unfortunately almost every court that has considered the question has concluded otherwise. https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...

Also, the question has been largely sidestepped by the fact that travelers consent to search by voluntarily proceeding into the secure (airside) area of the airport, and there are usually--if not always--signs at the TSA screening point that say so. It’s not like you’re being involuntarily searched at the check-in desk.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#360

Post by otterley »

Vicinity9635 wrote: post #357
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are entering government property so they have a right to search you. Just like if you enter a sporting event they have a right to search you. You are free to not use either service. Now we could argue that this isn’t a desirable way to do things but I don’t how it would violate the fourth amendment.

Read the fourth amendment since you clearly didn't the first time.

As an attorney, I can tell you that a naive reading of words in the Constitution is not how law is decided.
Post reply on HN