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France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#351

Post by somenameforme »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #201
moffkalast wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know I didn't use to understand libertarians, but after years of watching boundaries being overstepped again and again I think I see the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods. Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms, what more do you fucking want? Security is beyond a laughable excuse for things like chat control. Power tripping el…

I agree with your overall sentiment, except: "Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms" Russia. Putin.

The chances of Russia invading a NATO country are essentially zero simply because it would, almost certainly, lead to nuclear war. The idea that nukes wouldn't come out is contradicted both by decades of wargaming. In fact this is exactly what led to the end of the Cold War.

At one time the US thought we could end the Cold War by waving a bigger stick. But Proud Prophet [1] was an extremely elaborate war game played out in the 80s that demonstrated that literally every single aggressive strategy, regardless of how innocuous, invariably spiraled rapidly towards nuclear war and the depopulation of the Northern Hemisphere.

This led the US to sharply scale back rhetoric against the USSR, drop ideas of successfully fighting a nuclear war, and a sharp shift towards de-escalation and away from strong-arming. 7 years later the first McDonalds would open in the USSR. The next year, the USSR would collapse.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Prophet

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#352

Post by colordrops »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #216
colordrops wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone agrees with this obviously but it's like saying that we should be able to levitate or live in utopia. It's almost a law of nature that the types that become powerful are not your most savory individuals and will use the power to reinforce their positions.

You're talking like society hasn't changed power structures over the years. How things are is not some unchangeable physical law.

I never said it was a physical law, hence the word "almost". Just saying it's a strong trend. Why is everyone so literal here?

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#353

Post by grimblee »

tehjoker wrote: post #3

I believe this is the OS recommended to journalists that report on Palestine because freedom of speech doesn't apply without aggressive assertion of your rights.

They always point to the criminals to get at the political opposants, just look at chatcontrol

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#354

Post by skirge »

maelito wrote: post #63

The linked article from Le Parisien (a big French billionaire-owned newspaper) is quite nuanced. It gives the police's view on narco-trafic crime, but also Graphene's take : "Criminals and traffickers also use knives." This organization, which is not a company but a foundation, emphasizes that its solution is used by ordinary people who dislike how apps and operating systems handle their data. It adds that if crimina…

>cash

this will be next step

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#355

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

mmh0000 wrote: post #331
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no law allowing the police to do that in France so that can’t be what cooperation means. In the case of Telegram, it was about providing meta data when subpoenaed and moderating the unencrypted part of the application. There is little reason to believe it is about anything else here. Edit: Happy to hear what the people downvoting actually disagree about as usual. At the moment I have read a ton of mud thrown…

Um.... There's no law doing what now? [0] Loi no 2001-1062 du 15 novembre 2001 relative à la sécurité quotidienne, article 30 (Law #2001-1062 of 15 November 2001 on Community Safety) allows a judge or prosecutor to compel any qualified person to decrypt or surrender keys to make available any information encountered in the course of an investigation. Failure to comply incurs three years of jail time and a fine of €45…

That’s absolutely not about backdoors and I fail to see how it concerns GrapheneOS.

This law says a judge can compel a key owner to decrypt something as part of an investigation.

This doesn’t in any way creating backdoor in encryption setup nor does it cover developer of encrypted system.

Did you go fishing for any law supporting your point and hoped that brandishing one which looked vaguely similar to what you were looking for would work? Because it sure looks like you did.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#356

Post by Itoldmyselfso »

drewbug wrote: post #297
M95D wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think I see the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods. AFAIK, you're not allowed to live in a cabin in the woods in Europe.

Except in Finland :)

Unfortunately summer cottage can't be your primary residence in Finland either

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#357

Post by foldr »

vatsachak wrote: post #342
foldr wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are 'they'? There is no official thing called a 'knife ban', and again, there are no laws about knives specific to London. There aren't really any laws about anything that are specific to London, as there is no corresponding legislative body. Swords aren't considered knives, they are considered (correctly) to be bladed, and thus to fall under the scope of various bits of legislation, like this: https://www.legisl…

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives You're right that they say "knife or weapon". So they don't classify a knife as a sword There is also no London specific governing body

There is the GLA.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#358

Post by fzorb »

cherryteastain wrote: post #295
gcbirzan wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you're very familiar with the politics of both countries, but tell me... How is Nicusor Dan a puppet of the EU? More than Calin Georgescu? The guy who actively tried to stage a coup? More than George Simion? Granted, there's no PROOF he's a Russian puppet, but he's a far right twat that has views friendly to Russia. How is Maia Sandu and PES a puppet of the EU? And... let's look at BEP. Voronin, Russia frien…

Remember when they just annulled an election when they did not like the result?

The election integrity in question:

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#359

Post by goku12 »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #355
mmh0000 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um.... There's no law doing what now? [0] Loi no 2001-1062 du 15 novembre 2001 relative à la sécurité quotidienne, article 30 (Law #2001-1062 of 15 November 2001 on Community Safety) allows a judge or prosecutor to compel any qualified person to decrypt or surrender keys to make available any information encountered in the course of an investigation. Failure to comply incurs three years of jail time and a fine of €45…

That’s absolutely not about backdoors and I fail to see how it concerns GrapheneOS. This law says a judge can compel a key owner to decrypt something as part of an investigation. This doesn’t in any way creating backdoor in encryption setup nor does it cover developer of encrypted system. Did you go fishing for any law supporting your point and hoped that brandishing one which looked vaguely similar to what you were…

What exactly are you trying to prove here? Preemptive precautionary measures are definitely warranted in case of projects like these if the authorities demonstrate any sort of hostilities - especially from one with prior history of taking such actions.

Unlike the laws of physics, human laws encompass deliberate ambiguity meant for them to be escaped (with loopholes) or to be stretched as far as possible, without raising any alarms at the time of instituting them. The main purpose of the courts is to interpret the laws somewhat consistently in the face of such ambiguities. I can easily see how this particular law can be interpreted liberally enough to mandate backdoors. Your pedantic interpretation is not something they are going to care about or abide by. In the worst case, they'll just take the 'shoot first, ask later' approach. They'll just do what they like an then try to justify their actions when challenged. This has been the norm with even non-authoritarian administrations for ages. But the entire EU has been demonstrably gravitating towards this dystopian reality with their attempted chat control law.

Do you want the Graphene team to ignore any such possibilities and just stay put? In which world does that make any sense? And what's your point in brushing aside practically everyone else's concerns?

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#360

Post by qcnguy »

gcbirzan wrote: post #260
kome wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, sorry, but the EU essentially installed puppets in both Romania and Moldova, what are we even talking about here?

I'm sure you're very familiar with the politics of both countries, but tell me... How is Nicusor Dan a puppet of the EU? More than Calin Georgescu? The guy who actively tried to stage a coup? More than George Simion? Granted, there's no PROOF he's a Russian puppet, but he's a far right twat that has views friendly to Russia. How is Maia Sandu and PES a puppet of the EU? And... let's look at BEP. Voronin, Russia frien…

> I know it's easy to look at this stuff from the outside and say, oh, yeah, the EU is interfering in elections, but there's a lot of history here

There being "history" is not a valid excuse for openly manipulating elections.

Especially not as the EU Commission throws around unproven allegations of the very same all the time.

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