Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland • Hacker News Board

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#351

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:00 PM UTC

perching_aix wrote: post #244

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absurd because it places subjective opinions over objective goods. This is the vice of “human respect”. Human beings do not have a final say about others. They can opine, but opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one. Sure, it is nice to be remembered well, if you deserve it, but I do not live for the opinions of others. This is slave mentality and pathetic. I care about being good, and if I am hated for th…

> It is absurd because it places subjective opinions over objective goods. Care to name even a single objective good, and explain how exactly it is objectively good?

I would posit that caring for helpless infants is an objective good. It’s not clear to me how I’d explain that to someone who doesn’t inherently understand it.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#352

Post by mft_ » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:00 PM UTC

Thorrez wrote: post #193

Freak_NL wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. Where? This is a thing which always pops up in these debates because it is a deep-rooted fear, but are there countries where this is a thing?

Barbara Wagner [1]: >Her last hope was a $4,000-a-month drug that her doctor prescribed for her, but the insurance company refused to pay. >What the Oregon Health Plan did agree to cover, however, were drugs for a physician-assisted death. Those drugs would cost about $50. Randy Stroup [2]: > Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's re…

It's a very odd take to think examples of insurance companies refusing life-extending treatment and instead offering assisted suicide indicates a problem with assisted suicide.

Just to be clear: the insurance companies are the problem here; and more broadly this whole for-profit model of healthcare.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#353

Post by crossroadsguy » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:00 PM UTC

_ttg wrote: post #168

I was curious about how he actually died and found an [1] article describing it: > Kahneman used the services of Pegasos in the village of Roderis in Nunningen, Switzerland. In the death room with a view over green hills, wearing a suit and tie, he lay on the bed and turned on an infusion of sodium pentobarbital himself. A companion held his hand and told him they were holding it on behalf of his loved ones. Kahneman…

Is this https://pegasos-association.com the one?

> Pegasos, a non-profit based in Basel, Switzerland, believes that it is the human right of every rational adult of sound mind, regardless of state of health, to choose the manner and timing of their death.

I found this bit "regardless of state" really interesting.

I wonder what their views would be for someone who wouldn't have a family and nothing much to do or explore after a certain age? Does it matter what nationality they are from? What if someone's reason is - they had savings and now they have run out of it and area already 55-60 or more and have no intention or plan to work anymore and don't want to go through the struggle of life? (Of course they would have had paid the euthanasia fees)

How does it all happen?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#354

Post by watwut » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:01 PM UTC

teiferer wrote: post #293

AlexandrB wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The teacher was not at fault for his condition. We should learn magnanimity. This is equally true of conditions like paranoid schizophrenia or psychopathy. Sometimes a person is just born with wiring that makes you dangerous to others. Does this mean that everyone around them must have the magnanimity and charity to them attacking people at random?

Yes, everybody should be interested in getting them treatment, just like they are interested in getting people treatment who have leukemia, were born with a malfunctioning liver or need an artificial hip. Instead, they get thrown in prison for the rest of their life because they are evil and we all can feel good about having made the city safer.

People with leukemia want treatment and are willing to suffer uncomfortable treatment to get cured.

Paranoid schizophrenia have lower compliance rates and fairly large collateral damage. Psychopathy is a trait not a disease, but again, issue is that they do not cooperate and dont want to "cure". Psychopaths are fine as they are from their point of view.

It is just their victims who mind.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#355

Post by jamiek88 » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:01 PM UTC

hackernewds wrote: post #278

seneca wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's a not-so-well-kept secret that hospice care is actually assisted suicide in disguise. It's done with a wink and a nudge, hiding behind the principle of double effect, but it's a mercy everyone knows is happening. It's sad that it has to be done covertly.

Which is highly illegal, especially as a form of monetizing pain and lack of agency from elders incapable of decision making but flush with money and inheritors

And replies like this is why it’s clandestine.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#356

Post by macNchz » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:02 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #253

le-mark wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially what hospice is in the US. They stop curative treatment and focus on comfort. Then at the end when the person can no longer function to eat or drink they increase the morphine dose to a high level until they pass.

Right. It's a not-so-well-kept secret that hospice care is actually assisted suicide in disguise. It's done with a wink and a nudge, hiding behind the principle of double effect, but it's a mercy everyone knows is happening. It's sad that it has to be done covertly.

This is a misconception—research has found that people entering hospice often live longer than those who do not:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088539240...

There are many who will raise their hands with anecdotal counters to this, but I think much of that is borne from misunderstandings about end of life generally, which is a charged and difficult topic lots of people would rather not learn more about.

I highly recommend the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande for anyone who wants to explore the topic further—or really for anyone who has loved ones at all!

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#357

Post by crossroadsguy » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:07 PM UTC

mcdonje wrote: post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

I find it really weird. So someone pays CHF 10K to be given a lethal injection then it becomes dignified and the other way isn't? I think it is an insult to the departed if you question the path they choose - because then both the choices can be questioned and judged.

And did you just go to eating more fibre from euthanasia in the same few sentences? :D

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#358

Post by penguin_booze » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

Death with dignity must be more accessible to more people who, by their rational choice, wants to use it.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#359

Post by jamiek88 » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:11 PM UTC

antegamisou wrote: post #106

em500 wrote: post #62

I'm surprised and fascinated that this is apparently legal in Switzerland. The Netherlands, famous for allowing assisted suicide, has pretty strict criteria for this[1]. In particular, the physician must "be satisfied that the patient’s suffering is unbearable, with no prospect of improvement", which from this article sounds far from the case here. [1] https://www.government.nl/topics/euthanasia/is-euthanasia-al...

Euthanasia in Switzerland ^ has been a notorious profitable practice for years, compared to the Netherlands where it's almost exclusively practiced on those with terminal debilitating disease. ^ Yes, it's "illegal" but it's effectively nulled if the means to it are made legal.

Stop spreading unsupported lies.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#360

Post by firesteelrain » Sat, Oct 11, 2025, 5:21 PM UTC

teiferer wrote: post #302

firesteelrain wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still absurd despite what you say that we are implying that we should euthanize another human because they have become difficult to manage due to illness. Where do we draw the line?

> we should euthanize another human You are shiftinf the topic. This is about self-euthanization, assisted suicide. Not others. > Where do we draw the line? As written elsewhere, having to draw a line does not mean that the only reasonable conclusion is to make it illegal in general. It's a hard topic without easy answers. "Don't allow it" is an easy answer that doesn't do justice to the topics complexity. A good fri…

It is not really a shift. The slippery slope is the heart of the debate. Once assisted suicide is allowed, the line between respecting autonomy and others making that decision blurs. Safeguards may help, but asking where to draw the line is the central problem.