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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#351

Post by whimsicalism »

xrd wrote: post #98
slowmovintarget wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The powerless are usually the victims, not the criminals. Criminals are by definition exerting their power (usually through physical violence) over people who have even less "power." Not everything is about power dynamics, and crime rarely is. Far more often it is about selfishness.

Again, would love to be proved wrong, but I think physical violence is far and away the majority of crime reported, but the minority (in my own definition) of crimes committed. As an example, I think RealPage and the rent collusion they were doing clearly is illegal. And, has impacted hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.. But, you'll see a lot more reporting on a shooting in every newspaper, even though…

i’ve seen tons of reporting on realpage relative to pretty much any shooting other than the Luigi Mangione thing. if you mean you see shootings reported on more overall, well yeah - the magnitude of impact of all shootings in the US is greater than realpage

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#352

Post by xboxnolifes »

bb88 wrote: post #326
Ferret7446 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think libel laws should be updated, so entities are compelled to correct the record when requested. News media have gotten away with publishing "well we thought it was true at the time" (or "we didn't say it, we said someone else said it") for too long.

There was an arrest. The alleged crime was published -- but since it was alleged, the news outlet doesn't have to prove it was true, they were reporting on what was alleged by the police. So libel laws had little to do with it. It's possible the police "juiced" the story in the media, only then to try to sweep it under the rug when it didn't play out the way they were hoping. Or maybe the police thought it was all tr…

That's why they said updated. It means to change the laws.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#353

Post by xboxnolifes »

hulitu wrote: post #330
bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

> Ideally those news paper articles should be updated They cannot do this, their reputation is at stake. I've seen very few newspapers who recognised they made a failure.

Your right, their reputation is at stake. So, they should recognize their failures.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#354

Post by engineer_22 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #292
engineer_22 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that's true

You need to be more specific about which parts are wrong and in what way. They made a claim about the past, a claim about the present, and a couple claims about businesses. I have no idea which ones you're reacting to.

You need to be more specific

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#355

Post by hilux »

danpalmer wrote: post #309
cogman10 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publishing the name of a suspect should generally not be tolerated. Particularly in the case of mass shootings or general terrorism. Unless the person is a politician or an active danger, no good comes from publishing their name. In the case they are guilty, you are giving notoriety which encourages copycats. In the case they are innocent, you've seriously harmed the reputation of an innocent person. The only reason…

> Unless the person is a politician or an active danger, no good comes from publishing their name What do you think of the case in my comment, tldr: suspected CSAM offences by a scout group leader. I think it was right that the scout group were notified so he could be suspended... but that is only a very small step from publishing the name, unless you put recipients under NDA and/or criminalise further publicity. I'm…

He was a Scout leader, so he obviously sought ways to be close to children. Another group that does that is Catholic priests.

We know how that turned out – no one hears about abuse by priests, and they are silently moved by the Church to another parish, to continue their abusive ways for decades.

In other words, enforced secrecy does not protect potential victims. There's a balance to be found, but it is hard to know what that is.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#356

Post by hilux »

Yeul wrote: post #232
bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

In the Netherlands media never names suspects. But it's more of a cultural thing people just mind their own business.

"Minding their own business" means that thousands of children are abused by Catholic priests and no one does anything to stop it.

Of course, this is not limited to the Netherlands, but it's the point of the discussion: how to prevent more abuse, more of whatever crime.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#357

Post by watwut »

teddyh wrote: post #276
watwut wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People kicking someone out of their immediate circle is not a new development. It always existed - both for good reasons and bad reasons.

It has become much more common in the last, say, 10 years, than it ever was. It used to be an extreme last resort, now people talk about it like it’s the obvious first step. Discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32223003 >

Hacker news thread is not exactly a sociological proof. In that thread, people talk in abstract and no one reading it has any way to figure out a.) what happened in anecdotes they talk about b.) whether such situations are more frequent then in the past. Besides, hacker news is a place where imaginary past gets written about all the time.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#358

Post by cogman10 »

hilux wrote: post #355
danpalmer wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless the person is a politician or an active danger, no good comes from publishing their name What do you think of the case in my comment, tldr: suspected CSAM offences by a scout group leader. I think it was right that the scout group were notified so he could be suspended... but that is only a very small step from publishing the name, unless you put recipients under NDA and/or criminalise further publicity. I'm…

He was a Scout leader, so he obviously sought ways to be close to children. Another group that does that is Catholic priests. We know how that turned out – no one hears about abuse by priests, and they are silently moved by the Church to another parish, to continue their abusive ways for decades. In other words, enforced secrecy does not protect potential victims. There's a balance to be found, but it is hard to know…

> He was a Scout leader, so he obviously sought ways to be close to children.

Not necessarily. Mormon scout leaders didn't get the assignment by their own volition, a church leader would pick them instead. Depending on the scout sponsor group how the leader is chosen could vary.

> We know how that turned out – no one hears about abuse by priests, and they are silently moved by the Church to another parish, to continue their abusive ways for decades.

The issue with the Catholic priests was twofold. First, instead of involving cops and prosecutors early on, church goers would instead reach out to church leaders about the problem. If it did make it's way to the cops, the church would go through extra efforts to make the priest go away to a different perish. (of course without informing the parishioners about the past).

Then of course there is an issue with cops and prosecutors treating religious abuse with kid gloves. Slap on "this is a religion" and all the sudden laws matter a lot less.

> In other words, enforced secrecy does not protect potential victims. There's a balance to be found, but it is hard to know what that is.

And, to be clear, I'm not trying to say we should have total secrecy about these sorts of abuses. I think a news report about a priest or a scout leader being charged is appropriate and that cops disclosing to anyone related to the incident that they are in the process of charging the individual is also appropriate and indeed necessary (after all, the individual could have injured their kids as well which would be a part of collecting evidence). A news organization naming the priest or scout leader would likely not be appropriate.

What I'm against is things like mugshot sites publishing every arrest and name associated with the arrest as an arrest is not a conviction. It's something that can hurt innocent individuals.

I don't even have a problem with sites like this publishing the mugshots of convicts.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#359

Post by bb88 »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #352
bb88 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an arrest. The alleged crime was published -- but since it was alleged, the news outlet doesn't have to prove it was true, they were reporting on what was alleged by the police. So libel laws had little to do with it. It's possible the police "juiced" the story in the media, only then to try to sweep it under the rug when it didn't play out the way they were hoping. Or maybe the police thought it was all tr…

That's why they said updated. It means to change the laws.

But again, that's not libel. Libel is publishing something untrue on purpose. Everything published was true and is still true today. He was arrested and alleged of a crime.

Requiring media to update every news story they publish is untenable.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#360

Post by nyolfen »

whoitwas wrote: post #333
nyolfen wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no such thing as rehabilitative justice, which is just secularized christian theology of redemption; there is only keeping dangerous or destructive people away from the rest of us. if they manage to reform themselves all the better, but the stats don't indicate any persistent institutional success despite decades of effort and rotating fashions. the thing that actually brought crime down after its tremendous…

I don't think you're familiar with the topic. Nearly every single person who goes to jail will be released and may become your neighbor. I suggest you research the subject instead of pulling anecdotes from your ass. " the stats don't indicate any persistent institutional success despite decades of effort and rotating fashions" This is the exact problem that fuels mass incarceration and costs us tax payers and society…

"schools have incentive to fill desks. schools have incentive to not educate. students go to school and become worse because they're in a bad place"
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