Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 486 posts

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#351

Post by Scoundreller »

lxe wrote: post #347
Animats wrote: post #331

This is a serious architectural flaw. In the entire history of electromechanical switching in the Bell System, no central office was ever out of service for more than 30 minutes for any reason other than a natural disaster, or, on one single occasion, a major fire in NYC. The AT&T Long Lines system in the 1960s and 1970s had ten regional centers, all independent and heavily interconnected. There was a control center,…

The complexity and scale of moderns systems are on another scale of magnitude.

And centralized. Data is cheap (though they won’t admit that) while big iron cellular core stuff is expensive.

Funny when they billed extra for long distance calls even though all calls were routed through one place for a huge geographic area. Calling your neighbour could be a hundreds of miles round trip over mobile.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#352

Post by SpaethCo »

danesparza wrote: post #304
panarky wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also can't login to sites that require SMS 2FA.

Well ... let's be honest: SMS 2FA shouldn't be a thing. TOTP or stronger, please.

TOTP or SMS, it's just another text password you're entering in that's fully phishable.

TOTP just "feels" more secure.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#353

Post by jader201 »

fhdkweig wrote: post #301
standardUser wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that GPS does not rely on cell service.

agreed. On Google Maps app, there is a feature called "offline maps" which allows a user to select a rectangle on a the map and download all the street info inside it. A whole US state can fit in less than a few hundred megabytes. I have all the city I live in downloaded so I can go on walks without needed to use my data plan.

That's assuming you have it on and updated before you hit the road.

I think it's off by default, and I'm guessing most people haven't thought to turn it on, or are even aware of it.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#354

Post by w10-1 »

Likely unrelated: I can report that last week my phone number was somehow assigned to two devices for ~3 days.

I use a carrier that leases from a major (Verizon). There were clearly disconnects between the systems that even tier-3 support expected to automatically resolve overnight (i.e., be eventually consistent). Still, after 2 such overnight waiting periods failed, I got someone to spec a fix and see it through over the course of 3 hours. They were clearly surprised that both their system and the major system were not reporting correctly, and the solution came only after making changes while ignoring status.

I got a sickening feeling that enterprise software layers mated with eventually-consistent web persistence across two outsourcing organizations to produce a situation where truly no one understood what was happening -- or could even figure it out. This resolve only when some youngish person had the guts to just make changes that should work -- so we're back to the days of heroes.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#355

Post by patmorgan23 »

jader201 wrote: post #353
fhdkweig wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed. On Google Maps app, there is a feature called "offline maps" which allows a user to select a rectangle on a the map and download all the street info inside it. A whole US state can fit in less than a few hundred megabytes. I have all the city I live in downloaded so I can go on walks without needed to use my data plan.

That's assuming you have it on and updated before you hit the road. I think it's off by default, and I'm guessing most people haven't thought to turn it on, or are even aware of it.

I'm pretty sure maps caches the data around you if you've used it somewhat recently. It saves Google bandwidth too.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#356

Post by ezfe »

Scoundreller wrote: post #291
standardUser wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that GPS does not rely on cell service.

The routing does though. I have Google offline maps downloaded for areas I end up in just in this case. Gotta do traffic rerouting the old fashioned way though. Or have an old-school GPS map thingy in your glovebox. (Also have kiwix and a whole archive of Wikipedia on my phone). I wonder if meshtastic communicators sales took off during this. How’s LoRa traffic these days?

Apple Maps has offline navigation with historical traffic included

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#357

Post by cmg »

panarky wrote: post #297
jader201 wrote: post #276

Something I'm not seeing discussion on: What is/were the cascading effects of this, particularly for drivers? Many people in buildings were unaffected, as they could fallback to wifi. But I imagine this had a pretty broad impact to drivers. Just a few things I can think of: - Packages delayed (UPS, FedEx, Amazon, truck drivers, etc.) for drivers that relied on their phone's mapping apps to get them to their deliverie…

Also can't login to sites that require SMS 2FA.

My service came back around 1:30PM in Connecticut. Data and calls are working fine. I requested a 2FA code at 2:30 from a service that only offers SMS. An hour and a half later, I still haven't gotten it.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#358

Post by sandworm101 »

taurath wrote: post #348
sandworm101 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Traffic worsened because drivers weren't able to optimize their routes I'm not sure that is a thing. The vast majority of drivers are on familiar routes and are not navigating via electronic means. Better question: How are the autonomous cars doing? Are they parked by the side of the road unable to navigate without cell coverage.

It only takes a few people missing an exit and swerving to create a bunch of traffic. So many people are used to not navigating manually anymore I can’t imagine it doesn’t have a big effect.

I have a 20-mile commute. I used my phone on day one at the new job, then never again since. It just isn't worth the effort for a road I've driven literally hundreds of times before. Do people also use google maps to get them from their front door to their garage? From the grocery store to wherever they parked their cars?

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#359

Post by lxe »

bluepizza wrote: post #350
lxe wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complexity and scale of moderns systems are on another scale of magnitude.

This is no justification. They should have another scale of resilience.

Agreed. Not a justification, but an explanation/excuse as to why systems are less reliable. You're right on the mark -- when reliability doesn't scale with complexity, you get this.

Re: Cellular outage in U.S. hits AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users

#360

Post by ezfe »

SpaethCo wrote: post #352
danesparza wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ... let's be honest: SMS 2FA shouldn't be a thing. TOTP or stronger, please.

TOTP or SMS, it's just another text password you're entering in that's fully phishable. TOTP just "feels" more secure.

SMS 2FA is a code that you're entering from a phone number. The "risk" is that your phone number can be ported without your permission, and then someone else can get the code.

TOTP is more secure because it isn't tied to a phone number. You're right that it's still phishable but that's not the point.

In both cases, the primary benefit to the general population is to have a rotating credential that, if one website is hacked, is useless on another website.

Post reply on HN