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The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

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Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#351

Post by DropInIn »

mindslight wrote: post #220
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The staff or someone with them scans it upon request.

This sounds like "compliance" attorneys gone crazy. It's appalling, but does check out with the bureaucratic cancer eating our society. Waitstaff or the cashier reading menu options sounds like wonderful accommodation. Certainly much more so than impersonally telling a customer to solve their own problem by turning their dining session into a web browsing session.

You do know it effectively only applies to franchises and not to mom and pops, right?

Because it sure doesn't seem like you know the first thing about the issue....

And when we don't actually know what we're talking about what are we supposed to do?

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#352

Post by Eisenstein »

kacesensitive wrote: post #336

Can we stop calling these "dark patterns" Same reason why blacklist and whitelist, black hat and white hat. Dark != Bad.

Dark meaning absence of light, and light being something you can see, makes plenty of sense (transparent patterns, visible patterns vs dark patterns, obscure patterns).

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#353

Post by Hermitian909 »

pnt12 wrote: post #274
janandonly wrote: post #70

I feel the same burning hate like a thousand suns for FB/Meta, Google/YT and other platforms that monetize their users. But, let's be frank here: They monetize you and me, us, the users because 1 they can and, 2, they have to. Yes, they have to. Imagine they provided access to their platforms for free. How would the shareholders (your retirement funds included) respond when less profit was made? You see, we view them…

Won't someone think of the shareholders? This denial of responsability is a cancer on society. Poor devs, they can do no better because their manager ordered them to. Poor managers, they can do no better because they must reach their OKRs. Poor CxOs, they can do no better because they must please the board. Poor board, who must maximize the returns of the shareholders. Poor shareholders, who just want their retiremen…

> This denial of responsability is a cancer on society

I think this is an unproductive way to think about problems of collective action, which are capital H hard. We have three known mechanisms for solving collective action problems:

1. Culture

2. Changing incentives of existing actors (laws, taxes, etc.)

3. Creating new institutions with different incentives

No one really knows how to influence (1) very strongly on the scale of a decade. The others require government willing to govern in a very active way, the Republican movement has largely crippled this capability in the US over the past 40 years, roughly since Gingrich took the helm. (this is not meant as an attack per se, I only intend to say that the Republicans have been effective at achieving their stated goals, and like all political agendas it has a shortcoming like the one here)

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#354

Post by DropInIn »

eddythompson80 wrote: post #252
Mordisquitos wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, done! The QR code encodes the URL to download a 19.8 MB beautifully designed menu in PDF format. Now what does the blind person do?

Great straw man, but luckily the solution is easy. Inform the restaurant to use one of the many dozens of menu services that are designed specifically with screen readers in mind. There are also PDF screen readers, but that's less ideal because the PDF needs to be designed with accessibility in mind. https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technolog...

Doesn't look like a straw man to me....

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#355

Post by flerovium »

93po wrote: post #335
TeMPOraL wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but it's not you, but your HR department. Which is also exactly the reason it's a bad idea to write anything about your current employer.

Also Glassdoor has revealed who posted reviews (including IP addresses) to employers when pressured to do so.

Can you cite a source?

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#356

Post by DJHenk »

xwdv wrote: post #233
TheAngush wrote: post #186

I had an experience like this today when I tried to use GlassDoor for the first time. As a student making my first ever job applications, I wanted to see what salaries and work environments were like at particular employers. GlassDoor did the same scroll-locking tactic (so an element zapper like Ublock Origin's wouldn't resolve the issue), instructing me to register or sign in to view any information. So I registered…

> Suffice to say I will not be using GlassDoor in the future You’ll cave eventually, they know this.

> You’ll cave eventually, they know this.

I caved in years ago and registered. Only to find out that the site was still horribly broken and it was impossible to get any information out of it. Truly a 'Fuck You' pattern.

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#357

Post by scrps »

Luctct wrote: post #135

I have a bigger beef with other Fuck You patterns. 1. The increasingly high number of sites that will show a blank page when I disable Javascript. 2. The increasingly high number of sites that will show a blank page when I disable cookies even if I have no intention to login and often the site doesn't even involve any kind of membership. 3. Sites that refuse me their content because my browser "is no longer supported…

1 and 2 I have noticed accelerate quite a bit over the past years. While annoying I've found it is a very good metric for deciding who will never get my money/data.

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#358

Post by newusertoday »

I_am_uncreative wrote: post #281
Luctct wrote: post #135

I have a bigger beef with other Fuck You patterns. 1. The increasingly high number of sites that will show a blank page when I disable Javascript. 2. The increasingly high number of sites that will show a blank page when I disable cookies even if I have no intention to login and often the site doesn't even involve any kind of membership. 3. Sites that refuse me their content because my browser "is no longer supported…

What's wrong with Cloudflare?

they force you to enable javascript because they want to ensure that you are not bot. It's not for all sites, its for sites that have this feature enabled in cloudflare.

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#359

Post by soraminazuki »

flerovium wrote: post #355
93po wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Glassdoor has revealed who posted reviews (including IP addresses) to employers when pressured to do so.

Can you cite a source?

To be fair, they were ordered by a judge after they fought it in court. Non-compliance isn't an option here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32146082

Re: The 'fuck you' pattern (2021)

#360

Post by myspy »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #89
janandonly wrote: post #70

I feel the same burning hate like a thousand suns for FB/Meta, Google/YT and other platforms that monetize their users. But, let's be frank here: They monetize you and me, us, the users because 1 they can and, 2, they have to. Yes, they have to. Imagine they provided access to their platforms for free. How would the shareholders (your retirement funds included) respond when less profit was made? You see, we view them…

Yep, and Reddit in particular is the culmination of over a billion dollars' worth of VC funding. The changes we're seeing are unsurprising when you take that into account—even though Reddit has never been profitable, those investors are still expecting their return, which forces Reddit to either start bringing in serious revenue or have a promising IPO (or both). None of this has ever been for users; we're merely a d…

Isn‘t that a problem of shareholder thinking? A problem that imo should be meanwhile singled out as a bad way to handle a company. Shouldn‘t it be handled with thinking of all stakeholders? This would result in better management decisions, or not?
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