Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Notes on Vision Pro

notes.andymatuschak.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 700 posts

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#351

Post by kkarakk »

jolux wrote: post #204
TX81Z wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be so sure, mainly because of ecosystem lock. I sincerely doubt a double-digit percentage of Apple employees have touched and android phone or used OpenAI APIs. Big problem with ecosystems is you don’t know what you’re missing.

> I sincerely doubt a double-digit percentage of Apple employees have touched and android phone or used OpenAI APIs I strongly doubt you're right. Apple is full of geeks; just because they tend to be tight-lipped doesn't mean they aren't paying attention to all the same stuff we are.

Siri has been atrocious for going on a decade now. How much longer does it have to be terrible before we can say the people at Apple don't dogfood?

Hell it was bad as a voice assistant now it's gonna get lapped by other companies releasing personalized AI assistants.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#352

Post by unmasked_poker »

ukuina wrote: post #336
tsimionescu wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shooting is typically an action you take, not just a matter of the direction you're pointing in - so this fits the model well: the game gets information about motion to swing the camera, and gets the exact position when you press a button, but doesn't get to know exactly what you're looking at if you're not pressing the button. The question will be how easy it is to reconstruct that information from the last exact po…

This doesn't hold true for FPS games. You absolutely need to tell the game where you are aiming so it can draw crosshairs, even for on-rails shooters favored by VR.

most probably you are right. But I could imagine crosshairs are not needed anymore with highly accurate eye tracking, you would just intuitively know where you are aiming anyways.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#353

Post by tommit »

mellosouls wrote: post #344
jillesvangurp wrote: post #310

I think Apple is doing smart things here with their software: - leverage existing content means they won't have an empty room problem or a big "now what?!" moment for users after the novelty wears off. Without Steam, most existing VR platforms would be completely pointless. So far VR is for games and most of those are published on Steam. That's because most VR hardware vendors suck at software and end up outsourcing…

It is very unfortunate the way that we see repeated claims here either implying or directly stating there is something revolutionary, besides the power (and matching price) without any acknowledgement of the existing space. a focus on the living room experience with a high end movie theater experience running, again, off existing content. Genius move Cool. Tell NReal and BigScreen that, they and others have already d…

It's the same song every time Apple releases a new product. Yes, bits and pieces have been present in a variety of already existing products, but there is simply no one single existing product you could compare this one to. And history has simply shown that Apple usually gets a lot of things right and is a main driver in mass adoption. I don't know if that's gonna be the case here, since it's still "a lot" to put on something intrusive like that on your face for most people, but it's just not right to compare it directly to a Quest or something.

Similarly, sure, maybe NReal and BigScreen have done something similar and were earlier in doing so. But they simply don't have the same audience Apple does. I get the frustration -- we shouldn't credit Apple as the sole inventor of all good things. But they are usually really good in stitching a lot of good things together and releasing them in a single product that usually turns out fairly successful.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#354

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

Wearing a VR helmet at a family event is a big NO. I'd rather use a tech that would use footage from multiple cameras in the room, then build a sort of 3D-recording of some moment that I would be able to immerse myself in later, with full freedom of movement and pause-rewind.

Of course it would need some tech to fill in the blind zones obscured from cameras, but likely with generative AI and data from before and after the occlusion occurred such technology seems plausible.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#355

Post by kgwgk »

dvt wrote: post #68
balaji1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitness and gaming wasn't demoed much yesterday, but are going to be insane on the Vision Pro - so I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. But how big of a deal is the M2+R1? Anyway the metaverse was already being retracted, else this Vision Pro could have hammered Meta. Clearly Occulus has to evolve to match VisionPro. Controller has to be optional. It has…

> Also Meta could catch up if it was just software. This was Microsoft's warcry for years : who cares if Apple has better software? We have better hardware. Well guess what, software matters and it matters more than hardware. If you have both, you have literally a generationally-defining product (e.g. the iPhone), but even if you just have the software, you'll still eat your competitor's lunch. Why does everyone have…

> Why does everyone have MacBook Pros these days? Prior to Apple Silicon, it certainly wasn't the hardware.

It’s not like it was better built or had a better screen than cheaper alternatives or anything.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#356

Post by mcintyre1994 »

ask_b123 wrote: post #350
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you were to simply connect your mouse pointer to your gaze, for example, any sort of hover effect on a web page would be activated simply by glancing at it. I’m curious about how they deal with apparently not doing this, in terms of how do you know what button is going to be clicked if you click? The product page under privacy says that websites and apps don’t get eye tracking data, only knowing when you click,…

I’m sure the info. is in one of the WWDC videos, but I imagine the hover effect could be activated by the OS without notifying the webpage.

Sure, for a well built standards compliant website making appropriate use of HTML elements. There are a lot of websites that do their own thing, use lots of custom Javascript, where standard browser features like tabbing through their elements don't work, and they don't work well with existing accessibility tools. I'm skeptical that an OS or browser level feature is going to be able to make sense of them. That's their fault, but it's the reality of a huge part of the web.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#357

Post by makeitdouble »

throw74775 wrote: post #278
makeitdouble wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more complex than that...the whole limitation on promoting your existing membership services, the rules enforced on pricing and passing the 30% to the users etc. makes it a much muddier picture. iOS sure brings some value to the table. How much actually ? who knows... For comparison Youtube is also a platform regularily criticized by its participating creators, but you're not seeing high profile lawsuits or the…

No it’s not more complicated. iOS brings in twice as much app revenue than Android in total . What you’ve said doesn’t change this at all.

I'm not sure where you're taking your figure of twice as much, but I assume it's the AppStore vs Google Play break down ?

That number is the total revenue for the whole store (there's a lot to say about it, since Google is also not the only Store for android, in particular in China and Korea), and it matters very few for any individual developper.

It's not because the total amount of in-App purchase for all games is twice as much on iOS that my new ssh shell app will make twice as much on iOS than on another Store, for instance.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#358

Post by naravara »

jb1991 wrote: post #321
dwayne_dibley wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future, BUT, I think this is a v1 product, imagine where it'll be in 5 years time, or an SE model which isn't wrap around. I already wear glasses so having AR glasses is no big leap.

That's a good point, maybe eventually some of the tech will leak out and not actually require wearing the goggles. Regarding phones, I see your point there too, but at least with phones people can still look up make eye contact, easily set the phone down when needing to interact with someone; unlike these, there is a definite wearing-them and not-wearing barrier that many will probably not cross on a whim, so we'll j…

You can just flip the goggles up if you’re talking to someone. That’s often what people with tinted safety goggles, like welders, do.

Having to take AirPods out of your ears is more obtrusive I think.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#359

Post by mcintyre1994 »

pocketarc wrote: post #289
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #286

Related to his comment about the windows, I’m really curious how window management works in this. They’ve shown you can have multiple windows kinda in the space at the same time. But how do you rearrange them/move them around in space? How do you close them? Is there some way to put 2 apps next to each other in the same window, and keep them together when you move stuff around? I’m mostly curious because interacting…

The way it was presented seems to indicate that you can just set them wherever - if they don't move with you, then they'd have a physical position, right? And for me, that sounds super exciting. Imagine going into a room and you have apps on the wall. You go into your home office, you have apps ready to go (picture a big status dashboard covering a wall, your music app to the left of your desk, stuff like that). If i…

That's definitely really cool, but there must be a way to detach from that paradigm too for things like flights and hotel rooms, where you want the work/whatever to be wherever you are. And you'd still want to be able to rearrange the things in your home office room.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#360

Post by dddanmar »

hparadiz wrote: post #349
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

I don't know if you've ever seen Serial Experiments Lain. In it the protagonist slowly descends into an underground of hackers while finding herself isolated in a room with all sorts of mid 90s aesthetic crt monitors, servers, tubes and wires. And that is more what my current office looks like as opposed to someone hanging out on a couch wearing this headset. If the user interface is to be believed you can in theory…

Thank you for bringing Serial Experiments Lain back into my recent memory.
Post reply on HN