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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#351

Post by jobs_throwaway »

crazygringo wrote: post #332

I seriously don't understand why schools don't simply swap elementary and high school schedules. When I grew up, and what seems to still be the common pattern, is that the buses go out first for high schoolers to start school early, then do a second route to pick up the elementary schoolers who start school later. Can't we just swap those? Elementary school kids wake up earlier naturally, and this helps the parents w…

This is what my high school did and it worked great. That extra hour of sleep in the morning as a high-schooler was crucial to me getting 7-8 hours a night.

It's better for students and for parents. You just need to have adequate afterschool programs for grade school kids until their parents get off work.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#352

Post by jobs_throwaway »

Etheryte wrote: post #276
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

I'm not convinced this is the real root cause, this is just a reasonable sounding theory that's easy to nod along to. Other countries don't follow this time pattern and have extra curricular activities and nonsense school hours all the same. As a single data point, where I'm from you usually have a gap after school so you can do your homework and then you do extra activities in the evening. Transportation is handled…

Yep, I was in school district that was 9am-4pm for high schoolers and I was still able to swim for 2 hours every morning beforehand just fine.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#353

Post by anthomtb »

jesterman wrote: post #282
anthomtb wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does what you are saying about sports also apply to theater and music?

Is a disproportionate amount of money spent on very few children for theater and music?

Not where I grew up. Sports teams, theater and music programs were all funded equally. All extracurriculars came with fees and fundraisers. One of the gym teachers, also the basketball coach, was useless if the team was likely to make a playoff run. One of the English teachers, the theater director, was equally useless during the weeks leading up to a performance.

I thought the GGP was being unfair to athletics. Scholastic athletics are a necessary outlet for a lot of kids, as are theater and music. If you are going to do away with one of them, do away with all of it.

Maybe in certain areas of the USA (Texas, the deep south) you get an excess of public money going to athletics, in which case GGP has a valid point. But that wasn't my experience.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#354

Post by flandish »

tptacek wrote: post #119
flandish wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If.. uhh… society wasn’t so capitalistically expensive as to require the entire household’s adults to work, a lot of these logistical concerns would work out. Resulting in smarter and healthier children. But: smart and healthy children demand wages as adults that cut into shareholder profits…

Plenty of families that don't need two incomes have two working parents; parents work because work is fulfilling.

For sure. Everyone can, indeed, decide their own priorities. Some choose work over children others have to choose work over children.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#355

Post by Dylan16807 »

mhb wrote: post #286
layman51 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re kidding right? To me, requiring students to wake up before 7 AM should be considered hazing.

No one's requiring kids to compete on a high school swim team.

Replacing a generic "required" with "required to join a group/team" actually makes it sound more like hazing to me.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#356

Post by Symbiote »

gnarbarian wrote: post #267
raincole wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading all of these I still think it's "the bus routes", or more generally speaking, "the commuting". I grew up in an asian country and my parents never picked me up after I was 10. I just took buses from home to school and then from school to home. I'm not saying our system is better than the US, but it's a bit of culture shock that everyone commutes in their (parents') cars there.

I'd wager the public transit is safer in your country.

Having children use it — which covers the whole range of society in every demographic except age — might help keep it safer. It in parents' interest to keep it safe and useful.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#357

Post by karmelapple »

thewebcount wrote: post #344
raincole wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading all of these I still think it's "the bus routes", or more generally speaking, "the commuting". I grew up in an asian country and my parents never picked me up after I was 10. I just took buses from home to school and then from school to home. I'm not saying our system is better than the US, but it's a bit of culture shock that everyone commutes in their (parents') cars there.

I think there are 2 different things being discussed here: 1. Commuting via school bus vs. parents' cars 2. Commuting via public bus In the US, at least for the first 25 years of my life, most people I knew got to school by school bus unless they lived within walking distance or were old enough to drive themselves. Some kids parents would drive them, but it usually was either due to it being too cold to walk (or wait…

I lived in a not-too-rural city in the Midwest of about 40,000 at the time, and we still didn’t have school busing for anyone in the city. It was only for rural folks.

I was forced to get my drivers’ license at 16 to drive 10 min to school because the alternative was walking 1.2 hours every morning one way ti get to school… meaning leaving the house at around 6:00am.

The city had no city bus, so there was zero public transit option.

That was weird.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#358

Post by Dylan16807 »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #259
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

>The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. No its not, the article clearly states teenagers need 9 hours of sleep. If you choose to get up at 5am you just need to be in bed by 8pm. If you don't want to go to bed at 8, don't do sport and get up at 5. The parents and students themselves when they try and do too much.

What do you mean choose? They don't get to choose when school starts.

Even setting aside how hard it is for a teenager to sleep that early.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#359

Post by 908B64B197 »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #138
waynesonfire wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're all winners! Here is your sticker. World is a savage place and everyone will try to keep you down. There are lucky few that are surrounded by a support group that cares and safety nets at every corner.

Its actually a elitist, slap down machine. Cause academic families will not fear such a slap. After all, everyone you know has studied. And some of them are idiots, you know those. So why shouldn't you. But the one person from a poor household, who never went far in life. No matter how bright, will have noone to put them back upright again. Its pure evil and very unamerican and anti-meritocratic. Its also a thing, th…

Exactly

> Cause academic families will not fear such a slap

It's also that, to an academic family, a high school counselor won't even register as a "person of authority". It's a pretty low skill position, and they will likely assume they have more knowledge than the counselor regarding college (which wouldn't be a bad assumption).

> Its also a thing, thats very common in european societys with rigid class structures, like Britain.

It's something that has been echoed to my by brits here in the Valley. They described coming to America as freeing, which confused me at first because I know the BBC and British medias generally aren't so positive on America. Guess the brain flow doesn't lie.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#360

Post by kerpotgh »

joezydeco wrote: post #145
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

This is exactly why. We've been at our administrators for years and the response always is "the bus routes" but in reality it's because of the sports schedules. High school sports is a drain on the educational system, plain and simple. It lacks equity - an disproportionate amount of money is spent on very few children. The football coach in our HS has a Vice Principal title, so he doesn't have to teach classes but kn…

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